Mark 4 VW 1.8T GTi Build - RallyCross - MF Class

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MattP
Pay no mind to Danster, he's from Scotland so probably hopped up on a mixture of Diamond White, Irn Bru and deep fried Mars bars.....

Good effort on the stereotyping.

I take it I am the Jackass then. Is that better or worse than self righteous douche canoe or have I more work to do?

I don't care if he pays no mind to me, but my POS 1.6 VW was always near the top of the field against 2.0 and turbocharged and V8 classes while I had less than 100hp and was running standard struts and springs. But WTF would I know...

This dude probably has more invested in stickers than I had in my entire car.

---

Disappointingly not yet a Jackass

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danster

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MattP
Pay no mind to Danster, he's from Scotland so probably hopped up on a mixture of Diamond White, Irn Bru and deep fried Mars bars.....

Good effort on the stereotyping.

I take it I am the Jackass then. Is that better or worse than self righteous douche canoe or have I more work to do?

I don't care if he pays no mind to me, but my POS 1.6 VW was always near the top of the field against 2.0 and turbocharged and V8 classes while I had less than 100hp and was running standard struts and springs. But WTF would I know...

This dude probably has more invested in stickers than I had in my entire car.

I'm a Sassenach so no problems there, I had a '97 2.0 8v Cupra Sport road rallying so I understand not much power. Wasn't meant to upset you...... I think there are enough douche canoes here to have a regatta.

---

Yes, it's a Ranger.
Xr4Ti, it is rwd and was made in Germany.

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MattP
I'm a Sassenach so no problems there, I had a '97 2.0 8v Cupra Sport road rallying so I understand not much power. Wasn't meant to upset you...... I think there are enough douche canoes here to have a regatta.

Dinnae fash yersel, there was no offence or upset taken by me.

However, Pyscho Sniper Killer seems less receptive and resilient to advice and a bit o' banter...

---

Disappointingly not yet a Jackass

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DanielSL
Well, unfortunately from the above post; it seems that John thinks 36mm Bilsteins are P.S. garbage. Interesting, since he uses Bilsteins as the base of his own JVAB products.

You stupid cunt, I did not in any way say that, Floridiot transplanted fucking Masshole.

I have ---as well as every person who has struggled to try and reach thru that thick stupid Masshole skull, that YOU DO NOT NEED anything special for driving in a little field dodging a few little cones and low speed.

Second you moron, the Bilsteins I make for Golves in TAILORED for GRAVEL RALLY---which means it has MORE TRAVEL and is VALVED SOFTER than the PSS9 stuff which is for faggotsd like you to cruise around on Flar-duh boulevards on your 17" blingy wheels with your HID blinding folks trying to impress girls under the age of 17, because you're too afraid to admit you're fawkin gay.
Had you said "Hey, I'm an angry closed gay Masshole and I want to impress other guys so you know we can hook up and stuff so I wanna cruise the boulevards around here , so what suspenmsion...?" I would have said "Sure, that'll do fine"

But you didn't, moron.

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Also it seems that adding the information of I wanted to modify them to fit my spindles, as well as adding exactly what upper strut adjustable camber plates I was going to use equals to adding no further information in his opinion. Again, why he has always been asked to stay off my threads.

You've shown you are incompetent, and indeed are so stupid that I think the term used to be "retarded", so YOU trying to mod them = catastrophe.
Or if you talk to the people you claim to have associated with before, then you would spend thousands to modify something already PAINSTAKINGLY and GENEROUSLY and considering who you are, EXTREMELY PATIENTLY and very POLITELY is unsuitable--short and stiff---kinda like your dick except the stiff part---and thus a WASTE OF TIME

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For additional information, whatever strut I end up using; I will be using the HotBits front coilover springs in 50 Kg/Cm, with 20 Kg/Cm helper springs. The same springs they use on their full blown rally suspension. Just because the coilovers were out of my budget, doesn't mean the springs themselves were. These will work well in conjunction with the HotBits rear suspension I am installing.

Again you are an idiot.
The springs on your car at present are fine for the intended stated use. Since you feel compelled to waste money buying springs, then if you were smart you'd buy soem ordinary 2 1/2" springs denominated in pound per inch...
Using 279 pound/inch springs intended for gravel rally---and you should note that that is about 55 pound/inch higher than typical for a fast Golf----at the speeds you will do jerking off in Flar-duh rallycross is proof that you are an imbecile.

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Robert; Thanks for the info. I will look into TSS Fab,

You can't get away from running into me again---William makes that part AT MY REQUEST..he didn't invent it or think it up..He doesn't make suspension for Golves--or Subarus..I helped him set up his business and introduced him around and made vigorous suggestions for simple, fersure money making ideas...Like that because I see how many Golf guys shatter the OEM VW bearing so I make my strut tops to Subaru dimensions and thought it might be nice to have a simple pre-cut top plate to just drop over when double skinning the strut tower top---as needed when doing RALLY---not grass-o-cross

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before I go and purchase the Cusco mounts.

Junk...more wasted money

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Alkun; Already ahead of you. With over 30 years as a diver, along with boot camp, A school, and s.f. selection trials; I can hold my breath longer than a rallycross run. Although, even at my combat ready weight, I was well over 135 lbs. After the heart attacks, and the rehab stay after the motorcycle accident, I got up to 275. Back down to under 250, and will be under 220 before the first event. LMAO. Had a good laugh at that one.

Born in 1973, so started driving before 13? 5' 10" and "well over 135lbs" tooo skinny for strength and condition you're claiming...Lie much? Well that's obvious.

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Paul; If you think underwater basket weaving is good; let me suggest practicing on disarming explosives in the deep end of a pool, at night, in 3 finger mitts, with rusting up tools... or spending time with my 13 year old, that cannot hear the word "boobs" without turning red, and running back into his room.

Danster; My apologies, but I will be unable to try your suggestion. My job a lifetime ago was Counter-Narcotics. Besides a single bong hit due to peer pressure two lifetimes ago, I've never tried any of them. Much more enjoyable to assassinate traffickers, and dealers; then to become a user. LOL.

Man it just keps getting better..
when were you doing all this Rambo stuff..before or after you were a "Master Tech"?

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John; Your last post is the closest thing to useful information I have seen on one of my threads. You're getting better. Now, if you could just lose your ego, and realize your opinion is not the only one that matters. You could have just said, "No, those cannot be modified to your application. By the way, have you put in any thought to springs, etc...?"

Every single word I have said and typed is golden advice..It is YOUR ego which shines thru..Master tech but can't build or understand simple things.
Rambo hero...yet too skinny and has heart attack...from the photos I've seen seems about right..
And if you could set aside your enormous socio-pathic ego, you'd see that EVERY SINGLE OTHER PERSON stating an opinion has been in substantial agreement with what I have been telling you.

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I've done just as much research into the springs, as I have into the top mounts; sadly the Mk. 4 upper strut tower is a damn joke for trying to use for aftermarket performance. Luckily, the owner of the Mk. 4 hill climb car I found has done so much research and fanrication, that Iwas able to learn from his successes and failures.

Doesn't matter if you THINK you have researched...Nothing to research..You need better bearings for the top mounts and that's it.. Or if you have a big ego and think you are going to be going twice the speed of everybody else because you're Mr Gung Ho, then double skin the top..
No research needed. Just fucking do it instead of blabbering endlessly about you WILL ONEDAY be doing..
ALL except you are in agreement on that..

Here's a simple thought excercise:
In grass-o-cross, much like Otter-cross, the most important thing is to avoid time wise costly MISTAKES in driving, specifically driving multiples too aggressively.
In other word the problem is PRIMARILY reigning in the amatuer drivers stupid aggression---something you have overflowing amounts of..

How much further down the road to learning calmer driving would you be today if you has simply followed my advice before this long display of your stupidity began and you had slapped some 14s with some snows and done every event since way back then?

Now in the little mud-puddle of American Rally---which is what this whole forum is about numb-nuts, not grass-o-cross, Ojibwe Rally just finished up.. Some guy in A Subaru won..but nobody gives a shit because its been the same for 15 years.
But in 2wd cars we had a Rav-4 with an allegedly stock engine weighing 3390lbs , A no-expenses spared maybe $70,000+ FWD Fiesta and a 40 year old RWD Escort with a Irishman Barry McCockiner...all swapping seconds

Three vastly different approaches, layouts, expenses.. three vastly different levels of experience.
One car the latest way bad everything, the other an ancient 1960s design---done well and 1000lbs lighter that the won that won, the winner all wrong..

Stop fucking around jerking off.

You are only wasting time..ever serve time? never had a chance to understand the preciousness of time?, all you are doing is CREATING PROBLEMS which will fuck you up..

All the above was the best advice yet...

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

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DexterVW
http://bfy.tw/7RiO

Let me google that for you

280 in/lbs

Damn I just multiplied 50 x 2.2 in my haid, then x 2.54..
Fucking Masshole keeps claiming to have been a Rambo master Certified ASE mechanic and he can't convert kg to lbs and cm to inches..

Man...some guys.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

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john vanlandingham

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DexterVW
http://bfy.tw/7RiO

Let me google that for you

280 in/lbs

Damn I just multiplied 50 x 2.2 in my haid, then x 2.54..
Fucking Masshole keeps claiming to have been a Rambo master Certified ASE mechanic and he can't convert kg to lbs and cm to inches..

Man...some guys.

Yeah benefit of the doubt that he might be number challenged. Like I am word challenged. (damn 1st grade teacher that couldn't understand my english accent)

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DanielSL
I already googled it, LOL.

Too lazy to pick up a pen? took 20 seconds.

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I have 280 fronts, and approximately 225 rears.

Too stiff for fast guys in real rally...the force of impact goes at some cube function..If you really had been a Rambo UDT SEAL LURP demo expert you should know this.
The fronts already mentioned about 55 pound/inch too stupid IF we are talking about approx 190-200mm travel, the rears are 50-75lbs too stupid if we are talking approx 225mm travel...

But you already researched it so you're good.

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My IT cars were simple, compared to this. I had multiple sets for different tracks. Some linear, and some progressive. Depending on how the car was set up, I could completely change how it felt with just spring changes. I didn't even need to adjust the sway-bars.

You haven't the vagueset idea of what you are talking about..My god, stop bullshitting.

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The rally world is all about suspension. RallyCross, Rally Sprints, or Stage rally. The suspension is the biggest, most important, single thing. I got that. I understand that. I don't understand the numbers, or how to interpret them for different results.

You don't understand anything. Suspension working in a balanced manner for the available travel , weight of vehicle and driver's speed and or aggressiveness is an important part of the CAR set up but the most important single thing is the experience in the figer-tips, butt, and toes in the fibers of the muscles and in the eyes being open despite tumultuous physical and mental distractions..

Hence why I posted those excellent video links which you being a 100%, 24/7 365/a year lifetime bullshitter cannot begin to glimpse the perfectness of those vids.

The golf III Kit cars run by VWMS ran 300-60-40 springs front and rear. With the only variation being their helper springs. Even those were damn close at 60-60-60 front, and 50-60-30 rear.

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So I am assuming this is 300 mm of free length, and 40 Kg/Cm of spring rate? Is the middle number spring length fully compressed? I have looked at both Eibach and H&R charts, and cannot seem to figure that part out.

Assuming 300 anything is flat stupid..and further, assuming that what VW ran at the absolute highest levels of British Rally Championship, in a car with a kick ass 4 cylinder with a kick-ass box with right final drive and a skilled driver has ANYTHING to do with what a proven dim-witted dumbn fawk should use is maybe the final proof needed.

You claim you were military..
I don't know. Maybe But assuming you aren't merely lying, then you should understand that in this world there is a hierarchy, of knowledge and experience and results.

As such when you have not done a single foot of a single event, to use the words of a salty ol Marine I knew--and they way badder than limp-dick Army fags----
"Son, you are the lowest form of animal life there is. You are at the bottom of the ocean, that's how low you are. You could get in stilts and walk under the belly of an amoebae wearing a top hat and you would not scrape the belly if that amoebae. You are lower than whale-shit, son"

In this context you should copy and paste that as your official signature.

And like when you were a recruit, you should keep your eyes and your ears open and your whiny mouth shut.

Until you've done some events and have moved to to the ranks of a Newb.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

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DexterVW

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john vanlandingham

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DexterVW
http://bfy.tw/7RiO

Let me google that for you

280 in/lbs

Damn I just multiplied 50 x 2.2 in my haid, then x 2.54..
Fucking Masshole keeps claiming to have been a Rambo master Certified ASE mechanic and he can't convert kg to lbs and cm to inches..

Man...some guys.

Yeah benefit of the doubt that he might be number challenged. Like I am word challenged. (damn 1st grade teacher that couldn't understand my english accent)

Bugger its 2 fawking figures pounds and cm the most easy conversions, the geezer is lazy..
as for accents and idiom:
When I moved back to Merikuh in the early 80s after years of almost only speaking English wif Irish and Ozzies, people thought they could understand "normal convo" but fawk me they'd be lost around mechanical junk or when things went wrong.
Me "Sweet bleeding Jayzuz , dis fawkin ting is buggered!"
Them "what?"
Me "Wot wot? I says it were stuffed, clear as sweet fawk all"
Them "What?"
Me "whaddya mean wot wot? What? Knackered, stuffed, kaput, morte, passé, TOT!! verdammte scheisse is vernichtet! Wir müssen mit maschinengewer und gassenkammer die
Ingenieure ausradieren! Oder was!!!???"
Them "what?"
Me "Its fucked"
them "OOOOOoooohhhh!"

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

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DexterVW
My $.01

order a set of these, http://www.kermatdi.com/mk4-shine-racing-real-street-spring-kit/ slap on your bilsteins and be done. The fast guys up here all ran Shine springs on bilsteins.

When I lived up there, Dicky Shine built all of my IT heads. Great guy, great shop. Think his kids are running it now, since its been 20+ years.

The Hillclimb car I posted the photos of, is using Shine coilover conversions to Bilstein HD's. That's what I've been thinking of using in the front, off and on.

After what some others have posted, I think I am going to run the 40 Kg set in the front, and return the 50 Kg set for something lighter, (maybe 25 or 30 Kg) for the rears. What they are saying about lower spring rates makes sense. Cannot keep traction if the tires are bouncing all over the place on stiff springs.

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danster

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MattP
Pay no mind to Danster, he's from Scotland so probably hopped up on a mixture of Diamond White, Irn Bru and deep fried Mars bars.....

Good effort on the stereotyping.

I take it I am the Jackass then. Is that better or worse than self righteous douche canoe or have I more work to do?

I don't care if he pays no mind to me, but my POS 1.6 VW was always near the top of the field against 2.0 and turbocharged and V8 classes while I had less than 100hp and was running standard struts and springs. But WTF would I know...

This dude probably has more invested in stickers than I had in my entire car.

Stickers/Decals is at $200 and climbing, lol. You're not one of the jackasses, yet... I'm Italian, so I have to hate the Irish. You're Scottish, so you're safe. As Sean Connery was the only true Bond, and MacLeod the only true Highlander; I do pay attention to your advise and opinions.

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Robert Culbertson
What works well for stage rally and what works well for rally cross is usually not the same. Generally rally racing suspension will have stiffer springs, and heavier dampening. Rally suspension is designed to take large inputs at very fast speeds. Rally cross average speed is about half of stage rally.

What courses are you running? What are the speeds of the fast 2wd cars, average speed, what is the surface like?

THIS ^

Also, on computing combined or stacked spring rates, it is useful to think of the units in reverse.

What happens when I apply 100lbs to a 280# spring? It compresses 100/280 inches 0.357"
What happens when I apply 100lbs to a 112# spring? It compresses 100/112 inches 0.893"
What is the total compression distance? 0.357 + 0.893 = 1.25"
Back out the rate.... 100/x=1.25 X=80#

So, you effective spring rate is 80# until one of the springs reaches coil bind.
By nature, the helper spring is designed to be at full bind when the car is static sitting on the ground so you shouldn't care much about this combined spring rate anyway....

Even your proposed 225# front springs are probably too stiff for the surface and speeds that are common in rallycross. If you had a hard packed clay base that was dry and led to squealing tires and black rubber marks, you might be in the right ballpark but for sand, mud, loam, etc.... way too stiff.

And don't forget, the ideal spring rates are going to drop as you drop weight off the car --- and if there was ever a discipline that favored weight reduction ABOVE ALL ELSE, it is rallycross on loose and rough surfaces. A 60hp izzuzu Impulse stripped down to 1400lbs will destroy just about anything out there --- but it won't look like anything is exciting. So, think 13" magnesium Panasports with motorcycle brakes and bare minimum wiring loom instead of stupid brakes, 17" wheels, and 350hp turbo tunes.

---

____________________________________________________________-

One. Class -- 2WD

www.quantumrallysport.com

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Quantum-Rally-Sport/281129179600?ref=nf

"You post a photo of some Pee Ess whatever and ask whaddy all y'all think..."

Well, arsehole, there's your writing; so yeah. You're a fucking idiot. In the end, I'll be the one pissing on your headstone in front of your family. If anyone even shows up to mourn you. So who the fuck cares about your opinion - on anything...

I got it, I got it... You guys have beaten it in my head enough, thick skull or not; All I need is good stock stuff, for the struts. Springs with long coils, and small triple digit numbers.

Sorry to disappoint you. I've never done airbags. I don't stance cars. I've never installed coilovers on a street car, or a dual purpose car. If it drives on the street, at all; it only gets lowering springs. I don't need to impress anyone. Never have.

1973, good boy. You're better at math than me. Close enough; I started racing at 14. Mini-Sprints. They look like winged warrior sprint cars, but have 500, 600, or 1100 cc motorcycle engines for power. My best friend at the times father was the state, regional, and district champion in 600 and 1100. He built us a couple of 500 cars when we were in high school.

Graduated high school at 5'10", and 132 lbs., actually. Didn't hit 160 until after boot and A. Worst I was was 275 a few months ago, still coming back from this motorcycle accident. So yeah, jackass, still out of shape for conditioning and strength training. Doesn't mean I haven't done it before, and doesn't mean I can't do it again. I was the second youngest diver in history to go on a Cousteau Society expedition and I made Master Scuba Diver at 16, and DiveMaster at 18. So if I set my mind on something, I got the stamina and mindset to see it through.

Again, you're a fucking idiot. A FUCKING IDIOT. You don't pay attention, you don't read, you don't listen. Obviously, you are the one with the attitude and the ego. Just because I didn't take what you said as gospel, like you are the only one whose opinion should be listened to.

I said the ONLY ase cert I ever had was suspension and steering, when I was a mechanic. That's a fucking far way off from Master Tech. Very, very far. I worked as a mechanic when I was in college, to pay for my IT cars, and have access to a shop to work on them in. Big fucking deal. As usual, you blow everything out of proportion to try to make yourself sound more like the blowhard you are.

I don't give a rats ass, a damn fuck, or any other if every person on this board agreed 100% with you. Its how you interact. How you speak. How you write. You're a piece of shit. And honestly, that's your problem, not mine. You can be the internet commando that you want to be. Fuck off, dude. I just want to build a rallycross car to have fun with my stepsons in.

I will agree that the entire last section of the post I have been answering is the best advice yet. And I will admit it was advice. My autocross instructor from the early 90's is still doing instruction. He has an article posted in every months scca magazine, in fact. He used to tell me in AutoX that I drove too aggressively, and that I needed to educate myself on the nuances, and the little things. To be smoother, to be faster. Him and his ex-wife used to sit down with me at the shop I worked at in college, and give me advice weekly.
I do take things way too aggressively, in all things I do. I was trained in a discipline called "Violence of Action", and it kept me alive for 8 years. So I use it in everything I do. Looking back, I will have to learn to drive the RallyX car the same way IO learned to drive the AutoX car. With lots and lots of seat time, and being able to be receptive of constructive criticism.

With all of the attacks, and insults; I still don't understand the spring rates. Fuck it...yeah, I suck at math. That's been proven. Left college my senior year because of math. Fine, yes, I suck at it. Converting a number does not mean all of a sudden you understand what the fuck that number means, or how to decide what number works for your particular vehicle, for what its going to be used for.

So I guess merely using the VWMS Golf III kit car specs as a starting point is a bad idea. Okay. Back to the drawing board. Wasn't going to copy anything exactly, as the Golf III and Golf IV are completely different animals, but it was giving me some ideas. Whoops.

Thank you Josh. I appreciate the "putting it in laymans terms, for the newb".

Maybe the head injury was worse than I thought in the motorcycle accident, as it just took me almost 10 minutes to solve for "X", when you have the equation already written out in front of me.

At least I know what coil bind is. And I understand the helper springs are supposed to be compressed. I believe they are just there to hold the primary spring in its correct position and geometry, when the strut/spring is fully extended.

I have to check with HotBits to see what the lowest rates they have available for the Mk.4 chassis, and the rear shocks I bought. At least once I have all of the rear suspension installed, I can focus more on the issues with the front, and the numbers I will need for travel and spring rate.

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DexterVW
My $.01

order a set of these, http://www.kermatdi.com/mk4-shine-racing-real-street-spring-kit/ slap on your bilsteins and be done. The fast guys up here all ran Shine springs on bilsteins.

This is the truth. I've had my hand in and piloted the top 2 of 3 grass-o-cross cars in the NER region. All 3 being mk3 2.0 golfs The top 3 have pretty much the same EVERYTHING! Improved stock like suspension, rally tires, proper gear ratios, and a mildly modded engine at probably a fierce 120hp

P.S. I snapped my back a year ago and can still function normally.....like 2 overall rally sprint wins with a G2 car

---

No need to reinvent the wheel!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/2016 04:45PM by RTWRALLY.

I used these websites to help me out.

www.hotrod.com/articles/0812rc-coilover-spring-rates

www.hypercoils.com/spring-calculator

---

Yes, it's a Ranger.
Xr4Ti, it is rwd and was made in Germany.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/2016 04:45PM by MattP.