JVL's case for rallyng Volvo's

I am seriously considering building/purchasing a rally vehicle. To build I am considering an S10/S15 pickup with the 4.3l v6 and the T5 tranny. Here in St Louis they litter boneyards like cockroaches, so I know I'd never want for sheet metal or other components. Plus there are an awful lot of go fast goodies that the off road crowd has developed for these trucks. There is also along with those aftermarket speed parts, a knowledge base on how to get the truck to perform on similiar surfaces. Now JVL's case for rallying a Volvo has me interested in going this route. John, this is aimed specifically at you. You've pointed out among numerous posts your reasons for such a car. Would you please state your reasons in this one post?

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It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favour of vegetarianism, while the wolf remains of a different opinion.
William Ralph Inge

TANSTAAFL

There are usually a good number of volvos in the st louis junkyards.

I will single handly make John change his mind. Having read through his long winded posts, I agree the Volvo makes a decent rally car. There are suspension pieces available. Transmissions and diffs are available from Frod that fit. Why not?

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RichardM

CharlieV Wrote:
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> There are usually a good number of volvos in the
> st louis junkyards.

It's been awhile, but yeah I do remember a few at Pick n' pull. The place over on the Rock road as well, Al's foreign car. I've found stuff there for my Subby IOS. I oughta go start lookin' How about down there in Salukiland? Any boneyards with Swedish Iron worth going to look at?

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It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favour of vegetarianism, while the wolf remains of a different opinion.
William Ralph Inge

TANSTAAFL



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/11/2008 08:58PM by Vorpal_Rally.

Lee, i'm in St Louis as well. There are a couple of us that have/are building some rally cars. If you need help or want to drink beer and kick car parts around a garage, shoot me an email.

Dan

Go get'em guys! Form a rally club! If we work together, we can make a difference. We really can. (And for those who think I am being sarcastic because this is on this forum, eff you! That is really what is needed to make rally grow.)

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RichardM

Go across the river to the speedway salvage the pick n pull sucks lately. Went to the junkyard/metalyard today two volvos but cooler than that about 50 brand new vw crankcases a dozen northstar v8 blocks.

i'm actually very serious about this next bit, I would like to organize another rally in Missouri. We have 100ac in Feb, Tenn in May, let's get a third rally in the Central Midwest. Travel costs to alot of the well known events can be prohibative. So.. let's make our own. 3 rallys close to home would be a good start for this area.

I've found a fantastic set of roads in Central East MO. What are the first steps? Any organizers of other events willing to share some info?

Opps bit of a thread hickjack there. apologies



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2008 12:41AM by Zagato78.

Vorpal_Rally Wrote:
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> I am seriously considering building/purchasing a
> rally vehicle. To build I am considering an
> S10/S15 pickup with the 4.3l v6 and the T5 tranny.
> Here in St Louis they litter boneyards like
> cockroaches, so I know I'd never want for sheet
> metal or other components. Plus there are an
> awful lot of go fast goodies that the off road
> crowd has developed for these trucks. There is
> also along with those aftermarket speed parts, a
> knowledge base on how to get the truck to perform
> on similiar surfaces.

OK Lee, lets walk thru this point by point.
First: Beating on anything can be fun. Look at the photos of the damn station wagon 'Merikun Iron spewing gravel in a recent post here by out beloved Sgt Rauksauff, looks like funner than sheeeeut.

So I'm not going to debate the fun or potential fun of a pick up.
I will gently suggest that all the go fast goodies might not be intended for use on the relatively smooth and higher speed roads used in Rally vs the rougher, gnarlier stuff "off road".

I will also admit to a pre-sumption.
Rally IS a competition, we can agree on that. I think we can also agree that participation is a good thing even if I find it beyond my limited understanding what fun could be had from driving down stages at an average of about 37 mph, but hey some people have been doing it for years, who am I to say anything.

Now we all know that we're just doing this for fun, no talent scouts are out there looking for the next Grönholm on any US event, but there is some element of competeting, trying to contend with and beat our friends and because of that I have always tried to steer people toward cars which we know are proven in HARD fights, and in fields with some depth to them, rather than saying 'oh yeah some dude was driving a MR2 and he did pretty good---considering that he was second from last by an hour'

So I recommend cars known to be capable of winning in either of the only classes normal humans can actually afford sorta: Gp2 and Gp5.

So I push Xratties, Volvos 240s, Opels, used to push Ratsoons, and these days I include rwd Toyotas, and even have been making some suspension for a (gasp) BMW.
I understand that some people like the Golf, and I have of course been in the past deep into helping build or supply parts for every Saab that has ever won a Gp2 National
These days however, with the difference in costs of proper gearsets, final drives and LSD between any FWD car and most rwd cars approaching 3-5 times, that's 300 to 500% more cost for parts for FWD driveline stuff, I really don't push FWD much.

The thinking goes (and in a lot of areas betond just initial choice of car) "If'n it was good enough to win in WRC 10 years ago, it oughtter be good enough to go pretty good now in our events".






Now JVL's case for rallying
> a Volvo has me interested in going this route.
> John, this is aimed specifically at you. You've
> pointed out among numerous posts your reasons for
> such a car. Would you please state your reasons in
> this one post?

Continuing that thought from above "If a 240 is good enough to win against 158 other GpH cars, it's good enough to win here---and a 240 just did win Doo Wops Overall."
>
> menja bé, caga fort i no tinguis por a la mort!

OK here's the deal with both Volvo 240 and for that matter Merkur/Sierra Xratty:

Good size. Not too long, not too short
Reasonable weight. 1100-1170kg is doable.
SIMPLE, DURABLE 2300cc 4 cylinder motors capable of class competitive BHP and torque very easily, relatively CHEAPLY Certainly at rebuild time, its clear that buy 4 of everything is cheaper than buying 6. And there's no point talking about the max power avasilable, the 4 cylinder 2300s make ENOUGH.
Relatively plentiful (Golves are getting scarce out here and we'zze don't have salt)
Free to 200 bucks for a car gets you started with LOTS more dollars for the spendy bits.

Both can do good in Normal Aspirated or turbo, Gp5 turbos having the advantage of making enough torque to obviate the NEED for a real close ratio box.

Both have plenty of room inside for a safe cage AND to "average" sized human beans.

Both can be progressively upgraded as time goes on.

Both are good enough that YOU become the limitation in the total equation.

I cannot recall a pick up doing anything noteworthy in anyplace except Southern California, and there only against onionskin thin talent.
(There are pick-ups sold all over the world---ever seen anybody but American's using them?)

It's really late so ask more questions, and I'll try to answer.

Remember: Don't feed the Trolls.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

John, why cant trucks rally? They have Baja truck races. I dont really see much of a difference.

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Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

Dazed_Driver Wrote:
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> John, why cant trucks rally?

Didn't say they CAN'T, just suggesting that with equally skilled drivers a CAR is going to go around corners better.

>They have Baja truck
> races.

The trucks RAM STRAIGHT AHEAD INTO GNARLY SHIT BETTER, and with the clearance DRIVE OVER gnarlier shit.
But they have shit weight balance, tend to be taller, and so they TEND to tip over easier, and they TEND to not be very balanced and so they TEND to have a harder time getting GRIP than a car with good balance.


>I dont really see much of a difference.
>
> Feisty Peacock?

Well we drive on SMOOTH ROADS, that's a BIG difference

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Oh. Thanks

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Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

Thanks John,

That makes sense. It is definitely well thought out. The Volvo would definitely satisfy my quirkiness quotient. The pickup would be novel. I'll have to look into more about those speed parts for it, and just exactly what they were designed for, if I am interpreting your meaning correctly.

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It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favour of vegetarianism, while the wolf remains of a different opinion.
William Ralph Inge

TANSTAAFL

Dan,

Kicking beer and drinking car parts can be fun. I am free most evenings. As far as organizing another rally in the central Midwest, yes!!! Because RA events are the onyl ones I've ever worked, and specifically being part of a conversation along those very lines at the last 100AW, I know RA will send a package to anyone who wants to organize an event. While at Sno*Drift this year, I was drinking beer with Kim DeMotte and Curt Faigle, we were discussing when Kim reorganized the event. Demotte stated he basically went to Dent county and showed a video of rally cars to the county commissioners and forest service officials. The forest service people objected, but they don't own the roads anymore. The county commissioners were all for it, and hence, we now enjoy a rally in our backyard. Have you talked with any of the 100AW organizing committee? TvH would be a good guy to talk to. Care to share what part of East Central MO you're thinking about? One person YOU SHOULD definitely talk to and get on your side is Mike Hauser. Mike's THE map guy and his work in coming up with good detailed maps saved the 00 car's butt on Friday. We were able to get into Potosi and find a tire shop and get back to become start radio for SS2.

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It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favour of vegetarianism, while the wolf remains of a different opinion.
William Ralph Inge

TANSTAAFL



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2008 08:00AM by Vorpal_Rally.

Vorpal_Rally Wrote:
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> Thanks John,
>
> would be novel.

Novel typically results in very short participation time.

I am a mathematician and a statistician by trade. I have compared a plethora of build capabilities and build costs between any of the smart choices for rallying, assuming one big assumption. That at some point you want to be able to win something meaningful against real good competitors. I compared, Subaru, VW Golfs, Merkur, and Volvo 240s. The Merkur and the Volvo were the obvious stand outs. I decided on the Merkur because I feel and felt that the long term upgrade path was much more straight forward, especially with the ongoing development of rally specific parts out of JVAB.

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Grant Hughes