I don't get it, someone car to explain?

Mark,

With respect. When my dog died I buried it. After a decent interval of grief I got a new puppy, but I have never been interested in pedigrees or fancy dog shows. My rallycar needs rebuilding, but I refuse to bury it just because organized events have become out of my financial reach.

The exercise of “professionalizing” and hyping the “excitement” and danger of rally into a commercially viable “extreme sport” with bloody helicopters flying around has failed to keep the sport alive. On the contrary, it has itself created an excessive public FEAR and accelerated the crackdown of potentially closable roads. It is an inherently systemic death and counterproductive to keeping the sport alive at the grassroots level. Instead of just cooperating with low key locals enthusiasts (and local business), land owners must now guard against the unwarranted adverse publicity and liabilities of extreme danger and environmental damage created by the perception of reckless publicity junkies and outside special interests. When will rally people begin to connect these dots?

20 years of organization, dreams, power plays, family fights and complaints have brought American Rallying to where it is today. Maybe the RallyMoto guys you mentioned have lessons to teach about how they are now getting closed roads in your area. Typically, motorcycle guys don’t spend a lot of money.

If the “sponsors” (corporate or silver-spoon) of organized rallies can’t keep from killing the grassroots, they should at least have the decency to restrict their influence to the Stadium Events and RallyCross activities that photograph so well for them.

I don’t begrudge any viable organized Event that still exists, but they are definitely NOT models for the future of rallying ( Ray Damitio’s DooWops not withstanding). Yesterday, I went for a good brisk romp in my local woods and it was great! I sure hope that today's manner of organized rallies never comes back to my area, or I will most likely loose the ability to even do that.

Rich Smith

BABYKILLER!!!!!!!!! YOU FIEND!!!

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quartzite couldn't get their roads set up due to BLM red tape which is why "Plan B Rally" happened on our property. BLM was asking thousands of dollars for road surveying on roads that have been around and used for decades and continue to be used. However, it seems that due to overall budget shortfalls they are looking to take advantage of the public to fuel their beurocracy. Denise worked hard to acquire approval for the roads but the amount of money needed for the surveys was too overwhelming. We stepped in and offered our track as an alternate location. Looks like Quartzite is on for next year though, and our event(s) will take their own place in the CRS events schedule.

gpbullock Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Quartzite couldn't get their roads set up due to
> BLM red tape which is why "Plan B Rally" happened
> on our property. BLM was asking thousands of
> dollars for road surveying on roads that have been
> around and used for decades and continue to be
> used. However, it seems that due to overall budget
> shortfalls they are looking to take advantage of
> the public to fuel their beurocracy. Denise worked
> hard to acquire approval for the roads but the
> amount of money needed for the surveys was too
> overwhelming. We stepped in and offered our track
> as an alternate location. Looks like Quartzite is
> on for next year though, and our event(s) will
> take their own place in the CRS events schedule.


The problem with paying road fees is that opens a door that will never close. It would be better to keep trying to get roads without fees then to start the fee process, after that the fee just goes up and up...

---

As always IMHO

SEAN TENNIS KF7JJR
SEATTLE, WASHINGTON
SAAB 99, SAAB 850
SAAB V4, SAAB 99T

SEANT Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> The problem with paying road fees is that opens a
> door that will never close. It would be better to
> keep trying to get roads without fees then to
> start the fee process, after that the fee just
> goes up and up...

I honestly don't see how you can get many/any roads without fees. There's no possible way you can argue that having a rally on your roads doesn't cause "maintenance" issues. Let alone the possible inventive litigation in the case of an accident on a road after a rally that hadn't been "checked" afterwards.

I don't know about America.. but over here in Canada ever town/city/cross roads except for Ottawa could use some cash.

---

Andrew M
Onterrible
30ish

No Green Diamond roads, no DNR, no USFS, no Port Blakley, no Rayoneer, no Weyerhauser and so on . Fees or not they won't allow us in. Currently we have only Grays Harbor roads on the whole western side of the Cascades. Lower entry fees don't matter, more entries don't matter, sanctioning body doesn't matter. No roads, no rally..all else becomes a moot point.

Since the common cry has been low costs, fun roads, no HANS, no RA, explain why more of you whiners and bitchers didn't show up for DooWops ? Explain why people can't get a car back together when there's 5-6 months between events. This was likely the last big, fun, cheap, no frills, local event and all of the local dissidents and many ralliests managed to miss it...what ?? JVL, Sean, Jay, Nate and so on. We should have had 45 entries, I think we had 31. What's up with that ? $300 for 2 days too much ? You guys don't really want to rally anymore, you just want to sit around and tear down organizers, workers, sanctioning bodies and anyone who can afford a rally car that isn't a 30 year old Euro trash POS. Maybe the website should be called Piss & Moan Anarchy...

Teams should volunteer a stage worker.

heymagic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No Green Diamond roads, no DNR, no USFS, no Port
> Blakley, no Rayoneer, no Weyerhauser and so on .
> Fees or not they won't allow us in. Currently we
> have only Grays Harbor roads on the whole western
> side of the Cascades. Lower entry fees don't
> matter, more entries don't matter, sanctioning
> body doesn't matter. No roads, no rally..all else
> becomes a moot point.
>
> Since the common cry has been low costs, fun
> roads, no HANS, no RA, explain why more of you
> whiners and bitchers didn't show up for DooWops ?
> Explain why people can't get a car back together
> when there's 5-6 months between events. This was
> likely the last big, fun, cheap, no frills, local
> event and all of the local dissidents and many
> ralliests managed to miss it...what ?? JVL, Sean,
> Jay, Nate and so on. We should have had 45
> entries, I think we had 31. What's up with that ?
> $300 for 2 days too much ? You guys don't really
> want to rally anymore, you just want to sit around
> and tear down organizers, workers, sanctioning
> bodies and anyone who can afford a rally car that
> isn't a 30 year old Euro trash POS. Maybe the
> website should be called Piss & Moan
> Anarchy...

Jeez Gene, off your meds? I was out of work and recovering from several (4)surgeries, hence one hand makes it tough, so does lack of funds...and your excuse, or are you just pissing and moaning!

---

As always IMHO

SEAN TENNIS KF7JJR
SEATTLE, WASHINGTON
SAAB 99, SAAB 850
SAAB V4, SAAB 99T

SEANT Wrote:
> The problem with paying road fees is that opens a
> door that will never close. It would be better to
> keep trying to get roads without fees then to
> start the fee process, after that the fee just
> goes up and up...

Since you aren't competing at the moment, maybe you could find some no-fee roads in western WA to hold a rally on.

alan

SEANT Wrote:
> I was ...
> recovering from several (4)surgeries, hence one
> hand makes it tough...

Only four? And you still had one hand left? Wimp! *grin*

Anders

---

Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

heymagic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No Green Diamond roads, no DNR, no USFS, no Port
> Blakley, no Rayoneer, no Weyerhauser and so on .
> Fees or not they won't allow us in. Currently we
> have only Grays Harbor roads on the whole western
> side of the Cascades. Lower entry fees don't
> matter, more entries don't matter, sanctioning
> body doesn't matter. No roads, no rally..all else
> becomes a moot point.
>
> Since the common cry has been low costs, fun
> roads, no HANS, no RA, explain why more of you
> whiners and bitchers didn't show up for DooWops ?
> Explain why people can't get a car back together
> when there's 5-6 months between events. This was
> likely the last big, fun, cheap, no frills, local
> event and all of the local dissidents and many
> ralliests managed to miss it...what ?? JVL, Sean,
> Jay, Nate and so on. We should have had 45
> entries, I think we had 31. What's up with that ?
> $300 for 2 days too much ? You guys don't really
> want to rally anymore, you just want to sit around
> and tear down organizers, workers, sanctioning
> bodies and anyone who can afford a rally car that
> isn't a 30 year old Euro trash POS. Maybe the
> website should be called Piss & Moan
> Anarchy...

I could be confused here, because confusion is common for me, but weren't a lot of the regular teams doing to AlCan at the same time as Doo Wops this year? Pretty sure that the entry list would have been larger if they could have been scheduled at different times.

12xalt Wrote:
>
> I could be confused here, because confusion is
> common for me, but weren't a lot of the regular
> teams doing to AlCan at the same time as Doo Wops
> this year? Pretty sure that the entry list would
> have been larger if they could have been scheduled
> at different times.
>
>


Winter Alcan is only once every 4 years though. and spans 2 weekends...so probably just a crappy coincidence for doo wops this year.

---

Jon Burke - KI6LSW
Blog: http://psgrallywrx.blogspot.com/

Jon Burke Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
>
> Winter Alcan is only once every 4 years though.
> and spans 2 weekends...so probably just a crappy
> coincidence for doo wops this year.
>
>
>
> Jon Burke - KI6LSW
> RallyX Team Up TwoMountains
> Team Blog:
>



Okay, that's what I thought. We wanted to run, but no money. I'd have volunteered, but I'd been unemployed for 6 months prior and had just started a new job. Sometimes you just can't go.

12xalt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jon Burke Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> >
> > Winter Alcan is only once every 4 years
> though.
> > and spans 2 weekends...so probably just a
> crappy
> > coincidence for doo wops this year.
> >
> >
> >
> > Jon Burke - KI6LSW
> > RallyX Team Up TwoMountains
> > Team Blog:
> >
>
>
>
> Okay, that's what I thought. We wanted to run,
> but no money. I'd have volunteered, but I'd been
> unemployed for 6 months prior and had just started
> a new job. Sometimes you just can't go.
>

I almost got to go...I was going to co-drive, but my driver/ride dropped out due to funds as well.

Hoping to do the summer alcan in 2010.

---

Jon Burke - KI6LSW
Blog: http://psgrallywrx.blogspot.com/

Jon Burke Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I almost got to go...I was going to co-drive, but
> my driver/ride dropped out due to funds as well.
>
> Hoping to do the summer alcan in 2010.
>
>
> Jon Burke - KI6LSW
> RallyX Team Up TwoMountains
> Team Blog:
>


I guess I should have clarified, we were hoping to run doo wops, it's my driver's favorite rally and he hasn't gotten to go for a few years. I'm itching for some more experience in the silly seat.