Duratec, yo Dave Coleman

eyesoreracing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sorry guys, I just noticed this thread. I'll check
> the 2.5 MZR dimensions tomorrow.
>
> Meanwhile, fun fact on the 2.5: bigger ports!
>
> On the bellhousing pattern, all the MZR/Duratecs
> have the same pattern, so Lurch's data should do
> the trick.
>
> JVL, is this an FF or FR project? Trying to look
> retro too, or just going fast?
>
> -Dave

Dint I speak with you about your funny acronyms?
Wassamatta U?
Wassis FF? Fucky fucky? Fucky Rucky?
Fabulously fast, fuckin retarded?

Plis spikka da Anglische.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

fwd or rwd.

I'll let you keep guessing for what FF and FR means

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Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

My adapter plate uses the Cosworth (made by Titan?) low profile wet sump pan that has different bolt hole locations than the stocker.

Our first one that someone else did was goofed/mangled the clutch and input shaft of trans, so we had to set up the block on a mill and locate the holes with dowels/digital readout for ourselves like a poor man's CMM.

So the file I have has just a few of the same holes you need. It has a bunch of holes for an Xtrac 206 with a BTCC Xedos bell housing mounted at 11 deg. and a few of the right holes around the top of the crank to fit a Duratec. It's a BobCad file as I never bothered modeling it in 3D...just a 2D CAM program for our CNC mill. I could probably export it to DXF or IGES, but no guaranties on translated data.

---

Lurch
Eric Burmeister
The west coast...of Michigan

Johneers, hawdahya think the the Toyota MR two got it's name? He's talking Gran Turismo Rap-pan-esse lingo. It's the drivetrain configuration doood.

First letter tells you where the engine is in the car and the second one tells you what end of the car drives the wheels.

---

Michael LeCompte

Yea, sorry, I work with Japanese guys all day long. Habit...

-D

eyesoreracing Wrote:
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> Yea, sorry, I work with Japanese guys all day
> long. Habit...
>
> -D

"I will taunt you a second time"

I have William of Steel Solutions and Tony of Chicago both itching to shove the Duratecs under the hood of their Xratties, one on gravel one as a FAST road car project with a "better" budget.

Tondy d'Chicago is digging for the 2.5 info, I'm pushing STEEL and KEYWAYS, both are wondering about alternatives to the half finished bellhousing sold for too much money.

Motor mounting, etc is easy, a steel flywheel should be easy, too.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Not sure exactly what you mean by steel and keyways, but here's my guess:

Steel crank?
There's a factory steel crank in the MX-5 starting with the 2009 model. Racer price: $255.

There's also a steel 2.3 crank in the Mazdaspeed3/CX-7. Those are $738.

There is no rational reason for the difference in price that I can tell, so get the Miata crank while you can, as it will probably jump up to CX-7 price as soon as someone figures it out...

Steel flywheel? You can get an MX-5 flywheel for $80. Pretty damn light (I could weigh one at lunch)

keyways?

So you'd like to be able to put the cam gears and crank pulley on in a more conforting, traditional way? I can't blame you really, but I wouldn't go out of your way to do it unless its relatively easy.

For those who haven't seen, the Duratec/MZR (and I think most modern Fords, really) just have a flat mating surface between the cam gears and the cam. Same deal at the crank. Instead of aligning the gears with the shafts they drive and then counting teeth on the chain to make sure everything is right, you just put the crank at TDC with a special tool, put the cams at TDC with another special tool, slap on the chain, make sure the tight side is tight and the slack side is slack, and tighten everything.

Its scary not having a keyway or dowel, but it works perfectly if you have the tools (which are simple and cheap). Just FOLLOW THE TORQUE SPECS RELIGIOUSLY. You have to torque the crank bolt, and then turn another 90 degrees. Forget that second step and pistons hit valves. Seen it happen...

Since you're doing FR (yo...), and the fact that its an Xratty means you obviously don't care what anything looks like, the stock plastic Miata intake manifold is quite good, obviously very light, and points the throttle body in the right direction. Won't work if you use a 2.5 head, but will if you use one of the cheaper, more abundant 2.0/2.3 heads.

In case you haven't noticed, I'm stalling because I can't find the 2.5 info you want. I asked the motorsports guys and they said if anyone asked those questions, they'd ask me. Guess I have to try harder...

-Dave

Great info Dave eeven if I don't know if the "MX5" is a 2,0 or a 2,3? (See, you're deep into this shit and I only built one 5-6 years ago.)

But, dun't takka no offense, but you'ze sure the flywheel is steel and not IRON??

And I agree the plastic stuff looks crap but a little Krylon Dull Aluminum should fix that!

And the keyway thing can't be too outlandish an idea; I see Cosworth doing it on their aftermarket cranks for these (If i recall correctly but you know how that goes "My knees are grey, my eyes are bent......"<---Todays cultural reference; Bonus Points if you can identify the film scene that is from.

What we doing is checking deck height to see if we can put together a bigger hybrid like I did with the 2,3 block and 2,0 crank but use 2,5 block and 2,3 crank.

Please find out about the flywheel material and keep digging on bascic data for the 2.5

Thanks
(and yeah I got the jab "since its going in an Xratty you don't care about looks..."
Smooochies to you too.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

MX-5 is a 2.0. 83.1mm stroke.

You're right, the flywheel is definitely iron. I was assuming the goal was weight, not metallurgy. And knowing you and I think largely along the same lines here, weight vs cost is really the goal (you didn't say titanium...)

16# flywheel for $90 is pretty good weight vs. cost.

No, a keyway is not an outlandish idea at all, but if it was going to cost me $200 just to put keyways in, with no secondary benefit, I wouldn't bother. If someone convinced me things were going to slip, I'd change my tune, but I'm testing stock Mazdaspeed3 engines at 302 lb-ft at the wheels, and they aren't slipping.

Someone also asked about FR transmissions. Obviously, the MX-5 6-speed bolts right up. The 6 speed is pretty stout. Known weakness is a 3/4 shift linkage that breaks when repeatedly shifted without empathy. Solutions are 1: empathy, 2: billet linkage part with larger radius around the weak bit (available now for the MX-5 cup guys), 3: 2009+ trans has larger synchros to reduce shift effort.

2009 gear ratios:
3.815
2.26
1.64
1.177
1
0.787
3.603


2006-2008 are same, but with a shorter 6th gear.

While we're on the subject of rear-drive parts, MX-5 oil pan is tested to 1.2g. Capacity is on the small side, but not terribly so (4.9 qts).

If that's not fancy enough, there's always the dry sump...

-Dave

I want duratech in my volvo! Its all in the "family" right? Should be RA legal...

Ahhhh.... I don't think so... As far as know, volvo only goes down to 5 cylinders. Ford still calls it a Duratec when they borrow it for a Focus RS or ST, but its unrelated to the Duratec they borrowed from Mazda, or the Duratec V6 they made themselves.

Stupid marketing...

-D

You might try these folks John:



Raceco UK have built more different capacity and different specification Duratec engines than anybody else in the UK and possibly further afield. Raceco are the only engine builders to have tested 300 bhp + engines in three different capacities, 2.4, 2.3 and 2.2 at the Emerald rolling road run by Dave Walker. The Emerald rolling road is used by many Caterham owners and so it offers a direct comparison with other makes and engines from different suppliers. Nobody else has yet to test a 300 bhp 4 cylinder engine at Emerald.

To see some dyno graphs of Raceco engines please go to www.dyno-plot.co.uk go to power-run graphs and type in Raceco in the search facility.


Duratec lightweight steel flywheel £190.00+VAT
ARP Flywheel bolts £40.00+VAT
AP Racing clutch kit (plate & cover, up to 250bhp) £175.00+VAT
AP Racing heavy duty friction plate (Tested at over 300bhp) £95.00+VAT
AP Racing clutch cover (Sold separately) £115.00+VAT

Is that a Duratec in an Exige?

-D

eyesoreracing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is that a Duratec in an Exige?
>
> -D


Dave $80 flywheel in steel??

Que donde?


Tim's breathing too much beryllium fumes if he's posting English prices for the cost is no object crowd.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

$80 steel? What are you talking about?

I'm talking about this:

"You're right, the flywheel is definitely IRON. I was assuming the goal was weight, not metallurgy. And knowing you and I think largely along the same lines here, weight vs cost is really the goal (you didn't say titanium...)

16# flywheel for $90 is pretty good weight vs. cost."

You got a metallurgical beef with cast iron flywheels?

-Dave