How does the thought of a cage-less sprint event strike you?

this is the same sort of thing i was talking about with brisk tsd events.

we need to find away to lower the cost of rally.

just like the road racers and hpde

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I would rather drive a slow car fast as a fast car slow!
first rule of cars: get what makes you happy, your the one paying for it!

The idea of this has piqued my interest... subscribing.

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Cruisin' for a bruisin'

Mike Yoakum
Glendale, CA
2007 Subaru WRX (for RallyX ... for now)

I don't want to be a party pooper, but I've been biting my tongue for a while on this one...

At Oregon trail this year we were scooting along at maybe 75-85mph in the putt-putt 115 hp Volvo, got all messed up and did one of those big end over end flips like in the vids from Scandanavia, landing hard on the roof. Too bad there was no film of it, we be YouToob superstars.

If not for the cage, we would have been seriously fucked up.

I'd suggest figuring out ways to keep speeds under 50.

Sign me up.. is how that thought strikes me.

from a liability stand point .. its probably a bad idea.. our country sucks, no one takes self responsibility for their own actions..

i do have to say rally sprint makes me think of a real road.. (awesome) but speeds can get very high and danger goes up.. hey i'm still on board, but someone will crash and total their car, and get hurt, maybe die, eventually. I'm still on board.. but just make sure you are still okay with that.


i've seen "high speed rally crosses" sanctioned by nasa. it was supposed to be only for people with a lot of experience, a noob entered, crashed into a berm (like what you are describing) both air bags went off, seat belts locked, front end damage.

could happen to someone with lots of experience too... just saying...

Event/road directors need to select approriate road/venue for this type of thing.

Here in OZ we(general public) aren't much good at taking responsibilty for our own actions either, probably not as bad as stateside but entrants sign a disclaimer and at the end of the day it comes down to the two people in the car driving to suit the conditions.

Maybe worth mentioning, maybe not, but I bet there at least 10X more people in North America for whom "rally" means little more than screwing around at speed on dirt. You can call your event whatever you want. Success or failure depends on how much fun you deliver for the dollar.

We need something in between. What if, instead of a single, high speed, 4 mile stage, you broke it up into 4, shorter rallyx-style courses? It would be a fresh take on rallyx, slower, and safer. Call if "coefficient X."

Long term, as you get more entries, start selling the benefits of additional safety gear. If you get half a dozen people with basic cages (foundations for full rally cages) and full safety gear, offer a special class where that 4 mile loop is broken down into only two stages, run at higher speeds. Call that "coefficient B."

Who knows. Maybe down the road you have enough people with almost-logbooked cars that you can offer "coefficient A," where each car does two laps through the entire, 4 mile course one direction, two laps the other, complete with paying spectators.

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Brian Driggs | KG7KCA | PHX, AZ | 89 Pajero
alterius non sit qui suus esse potest

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DR1665
Maybe worth mentioning, maybe not, but I bet there at least 10X more people in North America for whom "rally" means little more than screwing around at speed on dirt. You can call your event whatever you want. Success or failure depends on how much fun you deliver for the dollar.

We need something in between. What if, instead of a single, high speed, 4 mile stage, you broke it up into 4, shorter rallyx-style courses? It would be a fresh take on rallyx, slower, and safer. Call if "coefficient X."

Long term, as you get more entries, start selling the benefits of additional safety gear. If you get half a dozen people with basic cages (foundations for full rally cages) and full safety gear, offer a special class where that 4 mile loop is broken down into only two stages, run at higher speeds. Call that "coefficient B."

Who knows. Maybe down the road you have enough people with almost-logbooked cars that you can offer "coefficient A," where each car does two laps through the entire, 4 mile course one direction, two laps the other, complete with paying spectators.

I think your on to something here...

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Cruisin' for a bruisin'

Mike Yoakum
Glendale, CA
2007 Subaru WRX (for RallyX ... for now)

Yeah thats some cool thinking. The down side to rally cross is that you usually spend 4 hours to do 3 one-minute runs, If you had the space, it'd be kind of like a mini-rally; maybe 4 rally crosses that you would loop through. Do a run, transit a couple hundred feet, do the next one...

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alkun
Yeah thats some cool thinking. The down side to rally cross is that you usually spend 14 hours to do 3 one-minute runs,

FTFY, at least the last time I ran a grass-o-cross.

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Andrew Steere
Lyndeborough, NH
KB1PJY

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fiasco

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alkun
Yeah thats some cool thinking. The down side to rally cross is that you usually spend 14 hours to do 3 one-minute runs,

FTFY, at least the last time I ran a grass-o-cross.

And that's the problem.
How does THAT somehow teach anything, and when we learn 'new" skills we have to reinforce them and reinforce them again and again and again till its part of the DNA nearly.
(Example: How is it that a guy who is 60, has arthritis, who has broken every finger 2-3 or 5 --up to 13 times, arms too, shoulders dislocated, spine crushed etc etc etc have reaction time averaging 180-185 milliseconds cold--ie just sit down and open it and go, no warm up, no psych up...?
I dunno know how exactly but I know it wasn't practicing for a minute or 3 in a single day every few months!)

We need low cost, easy "dip the toe in" events, but we need "a meal, not a morsel".
even the model we have--which is becoming increasingly "uniform" is not giving all of us, the guys in their 20s, 30s, the crusty ol salt dogs like Gene or me, all of us, enough time behind the wheel---hence the allure of 'low cost' foofery like Chump-mans.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Yeah, I just want to beat on cars for cheap, preferably with ridiculous slides and wheelspin on dirt. Rally used to be cheaper than road racing. I'm fairly certain I could run three LeMons events as part of a team than I could run two regional rallies. Seat time for LeMons is about 1.5 National (which is somewhere between 1.5 and 3 regional) rallies per event.

I'm a moe-ron but I can do simple math. Grass-o-cross isn't even on my radar. I can take my boys along on a little loop by my house and get more giggles per mile at the speed limit than I can by paying the SCCA $50 plus a weekend membership.

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Andrew Steere
Lyndeborough, NH
KB1PJY

a brisk tsd is meal and not morsel .
set up a brisk tsd on gravel roads that circles back to a rally-x course 3-4 times

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I would rather drive a slow car fast as a fast car slow!
first rule of cars: get what makes you happy, your the one paying for it!

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alkun
Yeah thats some cool thinking. The down side to rally cross is that you usually spend 4 hours to do 3 one-minute runs,

Hell, if that's what I had to go through, I'd stop.

Last weekend I spent four hours to do 10 one minute runs. With the turnout we had, we could've done 20 one minute runs... which we've done before.

OTOH, if we had more turnout, we'd just make the course longer so we'd get 12 90-120 second runs. Need to balance course design with available workers, can't manage a long/complex course with only six-seven people.

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Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2013 09:14PM by Pete.

Put a minimum number of entries showing up to hold the event to help that problem, Pete.

One thing that will help safety is to change the course and directions through the day. Rallycrosses tend to use the same course over and over all day to get the maximum number of runs, but that is when you get your rollovers, from drivers memorizing the course after a while, and then attacking corners with an aggression level that would be unrealistic in a real rally. So changing your course in the day is a real safety advantage that most folks don't realize; it is a very worthwhile sacrifice in planning time and run time.

BTW, in regards to the codriver killed at Ski Sawmill some years ago, the organizers and their sanctioning body won the case as I recall; the waiver signed by the deceased and his knowledge that he was participating in a dangerous sport when signing up was an adequate defense. But it took 5 years for it to come to trial (pretty common in such cases as I understand), and the organizers' lives were awfully stressful for all that time.

As a side comment, I am have not ever been sure how much real value there is in the accident/medical policies. Seriously, how often/how much has this been used? And this could be becoming redundant anyway in the USA with the mandatory health insurance requirement coming to everyone. I would not get too concerned with that policy for a small event, especially trying to get it off of the ground.

Mark B.
(Chairman Rally WV, 2007-2009)

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starion887
Put a minimum number of entries showing up to hold the event to help that problem, Pete.

There is one, but hell... when some people who prereg don't show up, and some people who don't prereg can be expected to show up... what can you do?

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One thing that will help safety is to change the course and directions through the day. Rallycrosses tend to use the same course over and over all day to get the maximum number of runs, but that is when you get your rollovers, from drivers memorizing the course after a while, and then attacking corners with an aggression level that would be unrealistic in a real rally.

Aw man, course is memorized after the parade lap. Problem spots memorized after the first run. fastest run is usually the second one, after that I overdrive and lose time. Last event's margin of victory was .7 seconds over 500.

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Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/27/2013 04:54PM by Pete.