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Screw Chumpcar and Lemons racing-why can't we FolkRace?

Posted by RALLYRS 
fiasco
Andrew Steere
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Re: Screw Chumpcar and Lemons racing-why can't we FolkRace?
August 09, 2013 08:40PM
Quote
RALLYRS
I mean seriously.
Let's talk about why we can't make this happen in America.

Wouldn't you guys racing on a paved track rather do this:

Yes.

Quote
RALLYRS
I mean-this ain't Roadraceanarchy.com-why are you even here?

I mean-so far I'm just a lowly cone-squisher guy-but at least the cones are in the dirt!

Blasting down a stage road is one of the most fun things you can do with your clothes on. But:





It's gotten expensive.

The LeMons bit appeals to my sense of laid back silliness. I can go beat on a car and get a couple of national events worth of seat time (albeit on pavement) for a quarter (or less) of what it would cost to enter and run one rally event. LeMons has done away with the crushing of cars and police the dickhead drivers more through black flags. They've only claimed two cars in the seven or eight years of the events, one was a ridiculously cheaty car with a bajillion dollar race engine, the other was a former South American diplomat's V12 Mercedes that had been impounded in some Lethal Weapon-esque drug scheme, "sold" off the impound lot (and this was not a US-spec car) and the owners kind of wanted it claimed to get law enforcement off their back.

The vibe at a LeMons race is pretty mellow, you can make it more intense if you want to, or you can just go run laps and see what happens. Seems like the harder you try, the worse you do.

Cone squishing appealed to me (as my first legal motorsport activity) until I took some beat runs on real roads in a decent car. Now auto/rallyx feels like waaaaaaaaaay too much of a time commitment for 5 minutes of seat time a day. I need more time than that just to get my brain and body in the groove of driving competitively. My dad autocrosses and I can go any weekend and get a ride in his fairly hot prepared class car, but I haven't in 10 years. Just not that much fun to me. Most of that crowd is chasing thousandths of a second with their checkbooks...no thanks.

I can drive to three indoor kart tracks within 2.5 hours of my house, and get 20-30 minutes of seat time there for not much more money than an autocross or rallycross entry, pretty much AT MY CONVENIENCE, using equipment I don't have to fix myself or haul around. Squishing cones is irrelevant with that option on the table.

Quote
RALLYRS

Track venue issues?
Insurance?
Lawsuits?

Whats stopping us?

The above.

Too many people, not enough space in New England. Lots of NIMBYs. Most all the tracks are roundy-rounds, and NONE of the dirt stuff has anything other than left turns.

Quote
RALLYRS

If this shit was happening in my town on Saturday nights-I wouldn't miss a race and i'd be figuring out a way to build one of these shitboxes.

Would you guys?

Yes, probably with the LeMons car. I like the endurance aspect of LeMons, but a sprint series in similar price-point cars would be appealing -- dirt or asphalt. For now, prepping to run two LeMons events a year is about all I can handle.

Some of the Folksrace thing is just cultural. We're a country of going round in circles, which is not without its skill set, but I sure prefer the variety of right AND left turns.

I'm too damn tired to try to write anything else coherent.



Andrew Steere
Lyndeborough, NH
KB1PJY
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Anders Green
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Re: Screw Chumpcar and Lemons racing-why can't we FolkRace?
August 10, 2013 06:09AM
Quote
RALLYRS
I mean seriously.
Let's talk about why we can't make this happen in America.

Track venue issues?
Insurance?
Lawsuits?
Nope.
Nope.
Nope.

Quote

Whats stopping us?

Nothing.

The problem is that no one is _starting_. Being stopped isn't the issue. It's that everyone is sitting around asking why someone else isn't providing the venue for them, and no one is doing the work of making it happen.

Anders



Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.
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czwalga
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Re: Screw Chumpcar and Lemons racing-why can't we FolkRace?
August 10, 2013 07:43AM
We actually have something similar. Sad I havent really had the time to do it. Maybe once i get some projects sold, i'll consider it.

I did take my rally car on the track, its not bad but a little rough in the lower sections it ruts up pretty good sliding is a good way to destroy your lateral links.

http://www.rollingwranch.net/index.html
https://www.facebook.com/rollingw.ranch.5?fref=ts






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Steve-O
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Re: Screw Chumpcar and Lemons racing-why can't we FolkRace?
August 10, 2013 03:24PM
Theres a group of us guys here down here looking to do some races similar to this but just like Rallycross (we only have 1 track atm) down here the hardest thing has been to find venues that will allow us to race.

We've already ruled out The Firm rally school as they want way too much to rent the track and aren't willing to work with us. We've also considered talking to some dirt tracks here about getting some thing together but with that it'll mainly be lefts as well. Hell we've even resorted to asking hunters and farmers for land but still no takers. sad smiley
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NoCoast
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Re: Screw Chumpcar and Lemons racing-why can't we FolkRace?
August 10, 2013 04:13PM
The hard part is the first race. Once you achieve that, you will either fizzle or continue. So go find five or six like minded guys willing to each build a car and hold a race.



Grant Hughes
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NoCoast
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Re: Screw Chumpcar and Lemons racing-why can't we FolkRace?
August 10, 2013 04:23PM
Like everything, its just money.

I'll get to do two or three Chump races this year and I'm currently sipping a pacifico and listening to waves crashing on the southern tip of Baja. Can't beat that on 25k annual salary. Probably couldn't do a single rally for that in fact.



Grant Hughes
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Re: Screw Chumpcar and Lemons racing-why can't we FolkRace?
August 10, 2013 08:06PM
How much would renting a MX track be?
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Greg Donovan
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Re: Screw Chumpcar and Lemons racing-why can't we FolkRace?
August 10, 2013 11:29PM
This my favorite grassroots style racing. Track is clearly more than just a path in a dirt field. Paved start is a good idea. Looks like they are very well constructed gravel roads with good safety barriers. As opposed to a dirt CORR track.

I would love to know what they do to maintain between heats.

I would also love to know more about the very quick black/silver/red bug. I was wondering why the engine cover was so beat up until I saw the inline 4 cyl. stuffed in there.
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RALLYRS
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Re: Screw Chumpcar and Lemons racing-why can't we FolkRace?
August 11, 2013 12:46PM
Quote
Greg Donovan
This my favorite grassroots style racing. Track is clearly more than just a path in a dirt field. Paved start is a good idea. Looks like they are very well constructed gravel roads with good safety barriers. As opposed to a dirt CORR track.

I would love to know what they do to maintain between heats.

I would also love to know more about the very quick black/silver/red bug. I was wondering why the engine cover was so beat up until I saw the inline 4 cyl. stuffed in there.

Greg-not sure which course/bug you are referring to....



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Re: Screw Chumpcar and Lemons racing-why can't we FolkRace?
August 11, 2013 12:59PM
Quote
NoCoast
Like everything, its just money.

I'll get to do two or three Chump races this year and I'm currently sipping a pacifico and listening to waves crashing on the southern tip of Baja. Can't beat that on 25k annual salary. Probably couldn't do a single rally for that in fact.

Yep, the last 12 months has been pretty eye opening for myself. My desire to rally compared to doing a lot of other things in life has changed a bit. The money I spent in 2012 to get going was absurd, and it was about as low budget as you could get for the 1st half of the season. 2nd half would have been just as expensive whether in the Talon or STi.

I think euro-style rallyx is a good way to go if you can get the venue. Of course, getting venues (that aren't absurdly priced) is key. There is no current venue in Alberta I can think of that would be "interesting" to do folk racing or euro-rallyx. And I don't think any of the two new up and coming venues will have the resources to do so.

But all of that still isn't rally. And rally can't be beat.
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Re: Screw Chumpcar and Lemons racing-why can't we FolkRace?
August 11, 2013 01:19PM
The pics in Steve Czwalga's above post look a lot like what we over here in the UK call autocross which is held on dirt.
This is a recognised discipline by the British MSA and has it's own distinct rules and regulations within the "blue book" governing organising events and car safety.
It is a great way for people to get involved with motorsport as the car preparation is far more basic than rallying and also gives competitors the oppurtunity to gain car control on the dirt in a safe environment. Therefore it's an ideal stepping stone to stage rallying.

As an outsider looking in on the USA's rallying I see that there is a much higher level of car preparation regarding cages than is required over here. We can get out on stage with a 6 point bolt in cage along with various other basic stuff (no hans), whereas you guys seem to need FIA level cages amongst other stuff which add to car prep costs.
I am also a bit miffed that your capacity classes seem to start where ours end!! Generally we have up to 1300cc, then 1600, then 2000, then over.
It's not surprising the rules state the need for all the high cost safety stuff in the car, because if anyone thinks they can just jump into a car with over 200 horespower with little if any previous experience and drive a rally stage to the full potential that the vehicle has it is no wonder all that safety gear is required for when reality bites for those that find they are out of their depth. Most cut their teeth on lower poweered vehicles to gain experience prior to moving up.
This is a wise choice to make for the vain people as it also saves the embarrasment of a small 2wd car whipping a large 4wd vehicles ass because someone lacks talent.



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Greg Donovan
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Re: Screw Chumpcar and Lemons racing-why can't we FolkRace?
August 11, 2013 02:19PM
Quote
RALLYRS
Quote
Greg Donovan
This my favorite grassroots style racing. Track is clearly more than just a path in a dirt field. Paved start is a good idea. Looks like they are very well constructed gravel roads with good safety barriers. As opposed to a dirt CORR track.

I would love to know what they do to maintain between heats.

I would also love to know more about the very quick black/silver/red bug. I was wondering why the engine cover was so beat up until I saw the inline 4 cyl. stuffed in there.

Greg-not sure which course/bug you are referring to....
bug and course in second video you posted.
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RALLYRS
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Re: Screw Chumpcar and Lemons racing-why can't we FolkRace?
August 11, 2013 03:52PM
Quote
Greg Donovan
Quote
RALLYRS
Quote
Greg Donovan
This my favorite grassroots style racing. Track is clearly more than just a path in a dirt field. Paved start is a good idea. Looks like they are very well constructed gravel roads with good safety barriers. As opposed to a dirt CORR track.

I would love to know what they do to maintain between heats.

I would also love to know more about the very quick black/silver/red bug. I was wondering why the engine cover was so beat up until I saw the inline 4 cyl. stuffed in there.

Greg-not sure which course/bug you are referring to....
bug and course in second video you posted.

Oh Derp!
Haven't scrolled up to the top to my first post for a while....

Thanks for everyone's comments.

I'm going to make a separate post for Fliverrally as it's not a circuit event.

I like it-cuz it's aiming at cheap rallying(as this beater circuit stuff is)-but it deserves it's own topic as its real stage rally.



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RALLYRS
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Re: Screw Chumpcar and Lemons racing-why can't we FolkRace?
August 11, 2013 05:02PM
So lets compare what we have found so far, as far as events in America, that are quite cheap, dirt or mixed surface,circuit racing,-door to door that already are or have been in existence.

And then we compare them to this overseas racing known as several different names depending on what country-but I'm concentrating on the Finns/Swedes-so FolkRace.


The Idea is something to bridge the gap between the American event known at Rallyx(American Auto-x on dirt-yawn-even though I'm doing it!)and Stage rally.

With costs similar(ideally substantially LESS!) than Chumpcar or LeMons.

Of course-It will never be EXACTLY like this Folkrace, as we are not all Finns and Swedes-nor are we swimming in 240's,Saabs and Beetles.
We also have different terrain here.

But-I like their model -and they seem to have a good rally driver or two smiling smiley



So....


In the U.S. we have discussed:

Beatercross in Mn.

Rolling W ranch in Pa.

dirt cheap rally

I'll bet there are more-most likely at some off-road track somewhere across America and I'm not talking just roundy round dirt-that's not what we are after.

So first,before we talk about the vehicles/classes/rules,etc.-lets look at the actual tracks.

Someone mentioned the Mn. thing isn't really Folkrace-and looking at it I see what they mean.

First-some recent Folkrace events:

Notice the terrain-looks like gravel-smooth flowing-many of the shots look more like a stage than a circuit.






Ok-this one's a crash compilation-so be aware of that.

Pretty smooth and flowing again
Hopefully the cars don't go on their roofs every event.
But I do notice in the some of these vids many cars hitting dirt berms at speed and flipping-also some just rolling over in corners where I wouldn't think they would normally. Rolling cars are fun to watch-but from a competitor's point-I'd prefer to keep the objects that might help me flip over to a minimum-I rather race than repair rollover damage...
Also notice lack of jumps or yumps.







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RALLYRS
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Re: Screw Chumpcar and Lemons racing-why can't we FolkRace?
August 11, 2013 05:14PM
I can't find any Video of Dirt cheap rally-just links and interest in what was supposed to be races at some pacific northwest locations-I'll attempt to contact the guy and see what happened and let you guys know.

I don't do facebook but if you click on this page-it looks like the guy couldn't do it anymore:

https://www.facebook.com/dirtcheaprally

Grassroots talking about it:

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/dirt-cheap-rally-a-new-way-to-thrash-on-500-race-c/35972/page1/


So lets check out the others....


Check out the beaterx vid and compare the course to Folkrace:






And then the rolling ranch facility:










Quite different-huh?



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