Rally Chat
Don\
Welcome! Log In Register

Advanced

ding-dong production (class) is dead

Posted by Gravity Fed 
NoCoast
Grant Hughes
Senior Moderator
Location: Whitefish, MT
Join Date: 01/11/2006
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 6,818

Rally Car:
BMW



Re: ding-dong production (class) is dead
November 19, 2013 01:33PM
Quote
KTurner
just remember the FR-S sells 3 to 1 over the BRZ

Scion < Subaru



Grant Hughes
Please Login or Register to post a reply
KTurner
Kevin Turner
Ultra Moderator
Location: Newark, DE
Join Date: 01/27/2006
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 364

Rally Car:
2wd Impreza... dude you should do an sti swap


Re: ding-dong production (class) is dead
November 19, 2013 01:57PM
Quote
NoCoast
Quote
KTurner
just remember the FR-S sells 3 to 1 over the BRZ

Scion < Subaru

insert flat brim hat joke.



-KTurner
Stomp down on the exhilarator and hold on to the wheel.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
NoCoast
Grant Hughes
Senior Moderator
Location: Whitefish, MT
Join Date: 01/11/2006
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 6,818

Rally Car:
BMW



Re: ding-dong production (class) is dead
November 19, 2013 01:58PM
Quote
KTurner
insert flat brim hat joke.

GO BRONCOS!



Grant Hughes
Please Login or Register to post a reply
imnotcrazy
Don Kennedy
Super Moderator
Location: Reading, PA
Join Date: 10/05/2006
Age: Fossilized
Posts: 227

Rally Car:
Impreza


Re: ding-dong production (class) is dead
November 19, 2013 02:18PM
Quote
john vanlandingham
how narrow the mains are..
Just got done rebuilding an EJ motor (160,000 miles on a used car we bought with a bad bearing because someone didn't take car of it) and have built other EJ motors. So although I'm not an engineer. I'm also not stupid or uneducated. You've got 5 mains on a split case, 3 pretty hefty and 2 not as wide. With the overall design of the motor, I don't agree that they're "narrow". Got 268,000 on my 96 DD and only had one head off to replace a dropped valve giude. The only problems I've had with my EJ rally car motor that I've been running for 13 years, were ones I created myself. Subaru sure does have the oiling down pat.



Don Kennedy
Please Login or Register to post a reply
AaronJMcConnell
AaronJMcConnell
Ultra Moderator
Location: Evergreen Colorado
Join Date: 04/11/2006
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 76

Rally Car:
Subaru Impreza


Re: ding-dong production (class) is dead
November 19, 2013 02:49PM
John,

You're mental health is rather sad. Reach out and get some help, take a vacation, step away from the internet and this unhealthy one dimensional life that has made you so miserable.
SERIOUSLY!!!
You are correct that an open deck ej205 doesn't have much going for it. There are many other Subaru engine creations that are very worthwhile and have had great success in the sport that brings us all together. Split case aluminum boxer engines require more precision in machining and assembly than the cast iron inlines that you're used to like bda's, yb's 4g63's, 3sgte's, etc. Knowledge of torque plate cylinder honing, case half milling and align bored journals are requirements for a successful Subaru rally engine build. David Higgins would not have won the Rally America championship this year in a Saab 96.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
alosix
Jason Powers
Elite Moderator
Location: Lyons, CO
Join Date: 08/02/2011
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 326

Rally Car:
02 WRX, still to quiet, but it finished a rally


Re: ding-dong production (class) is dead
November 19, 2013 02:56PM
Quote
KTurner
just remember the FR-S sells 3 to 1 over the BRZ

yeah.. but isn't that mostly because some artificial scarcity of the BRZ vs the FRS?

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/06/20/subaru-brz-scion-fr-s-lead-list-of-fastest-selling-cars/

thought for building one to race its probably a tossup since anything that makes the 2 different would likely get binned.

I'm glad to see production gone. Having thought about building a car to PGT specs and then just moving on to slOPEN the car is just easier to built to be maintainable.


*
slOPEN <- running an 'open' car with a bone stock motor/drivetrain...



Quote

This isn't floor mat anarchy
Please Login or Register to post a reply
DaveK
Dave Kern
Professional Moderator
Location: Centennial
Join Date: 07/11/2008
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 1,085

Rally Car:
Compact M3 & Evo IX


Re: ding-dong production (class) is dead
November 19, 2013 02:59PM
Quote
AaronJMcConnell
You are correct that an open deck ej205 doesn't have much going for it.

How many subaru engines did you melt at PPIHC? Time to get back to your inline 4 roots. hot smiley

Dave
Please Login or Register to post a reply
john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
Ultra Moderator
Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA
Join Date: 12/20/2005
Age: Fossilized
Posts: 14,152

Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: ding-dong production (class) is dead
November 19, 2013 03:15PM
Quote
AaronJMcConnell
John,

You're mental health is rather sad. Reach out and get some help, take a vacation, step away from the internet and this unhealthy one dimensional life that has made you so miserable.
SERIOUSLY!!!
You are correct that an open deck ej205 doesn't have much going for it. There are many other Subaru engine creations that are very worthwhile and have had great success in the sport that brings us all together. Split case aluminum boxer engines require more precision in machining and assembly than the cast iron inlines that you're used to like bda's, yb's 4g63's, 3sgte's, etc. Knowledge of torque plate cylinder honing, case half milling and align bored journals are requirements for a successful Subaru rally engine build. David Higgins would not have won the Rally America championship this year in a Saab 96.

My mental health is fine. Just sick of stupid/ignorant people talking shit.
It would be a sign of deteriorating mental health is the whining and loud arrogant jabber of fools did NOT annoy one..

And Aaron all these things you mentioned have all been around before with some other split light alloy case junk that had equally maniacal fans ...
And the point is if they were any good, they would not require all that, plus a new crank and rods and pistons and bigger case studs..
Give me a break.

Ever sat a aircooled VW crank next to an EJ STOCK crank..

Want to venture a guess which is stronger? And forged steel?



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
czwalga
steve czwalga
Infallible Moderator
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Join Date: 09/16/2011
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 376

Rally Car:
95 awd celica


Re: ding-dong production (class) is dead
November 19, 2013 04:35PM
Subaru giving $300 off entry fees to regional competitors is more than enough to offset these engine short falls. Especially when most of them on running stock'ish engines that hold up fine. For the rallys I run thats $600; you could put a new engine in every year for the difference.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/2013 04:48PM by czwalga.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
heymagic
Banned
Mega Moderator
Location: La la land
Join Date: 01/25/2006
Age: Fossilized
Posts: 3,740

Rally Car:
Not a Volvo


Re: ding-dong production (class) is dead
November 19, 2013 05:31PM
Really might be you John. Really. Asking why you hate Subes isn't stupid, you usually give plenty of input even when not asked. Asking about center diffs isn't stupid, you just have no first hand experience rallying an AWD car.


Subes are just fine. Air cooled VWs rarely saw 100k in 40-60 hp trim. Subies rarely die before 300k..like many junk Jap cars.

We certainly changed a bunch of EVO engines for a certain national guy , anything boosted can be broken.

Glad to see P-Class gone myself !!
Please Login or Register to post a reply
Morison
Banned
Junior Moderator
Location: Calgary, AB
Join Date: 03/27/2009
Age: Ancient
Posts: 1,798

Rally Car:
(ex)86 RX-7(built), (ex)2.5RS (bought)


Re: ding-dong production (class) is dead
November 19, 2013 05:44PM
Quote
john vanlandingham
Ever sat a aircooled VW crank next to an EJ STOCK crank..
Want to venture a guess which is stronger? And forged steel?

Why does it matter?
One thing that's been proven is that Subies, in stock-ish trim - are reliable over the long haul. A 'built' motor can be shredded up by anyone for any number of reasons.

Some might sat stronger is better but in practical terms strong enough is just as good.



First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015



Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
Ultra Moderator
Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA
Join Date: 12/20/2005
Age: Fossilized
Posts: 14,152

Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: ding-dong production (class) is dead
November 19, 2013 06:50PM
Quote
heymagic
Really might be you John. Really. Asking why you hate Subes isn't stupid, you usually give plenty of input even when not asked. Asking about center diffs isn't stupid, you just have no first hand experience rallying an AWD car.
I don't?
Geeze, I thought those diffs sticking out of the sump in my black car had halfshafts going out to the front wheels..And since it has a rear diff too and I made of point of getting the 9095486 'selected 50 N/m' so called pumped up center diff.
And i went to all the trouble to make the front diffs up to motorsport spec
drilling and tapping the stock 6mm screw holes out to 8mm, red Locktiting in
M8 studs like this (oh shit I have spares in different ratios!)


Then making "gravel spec" ground flat strengthening plates


and then going to all the trouble of very carefully drilling the covers to make the fit a light interference fit


I was all proud of myself making these things stronger, cause lord know with the grip in a AWD car there's more stress seen by the box.



But maybe you're right I don't have any first hand experience with AWD..

But wait...What's this thing sticking out of my sump?


And this car seemed to have diffs and halfshafts at both ends too, just like my black one.


And I do seem to remember some long distance calls to a guy so I could pass several guys---both Subie and Misterbitchy along to people who could mod their viscous diffs,
Somebody I first spoke with back in 91? 93?

Quote

Bara Motorsports Ltd
Buntsford Business Park
Buntsford Park Rd
Bromsgrove
Worcestershire
B60 3DX
Tel: +44(0)1527 880011
Fax: +44(0)1527 577877

And as far as anybody I've talked to locally with their AWD cars and supposededly AWD "ex-spurts", nobody was familiar how they worked and importantly, what to do to get them to work correctly for gravel--aside from "Buy this"..

Gee but maybe you're right, I those cars I own and have built aren't AWD (they just have front diffs and axles and center diffs but aren't real ) so no first hand experience...eye rolling smiley

Quote

Subes are just fine. Air cooled VWs rarely saw 100k in 40-60 hp trim. Subies rarely die before 300k..like many junk Jap cars.

except when the cranks break in half, or the rods bend, or they leak, or the pistons burn, or the studs pull out...

The poor kid dropping off a motor for a nice warming up said he'd done 2 different engine rebuilds because they popped, so I guyss he was jst unklucky..
He sure seemed to feel a lot more confident about the size and stoutness of the Volvo stuff...

Whatever, they work fine but they are not "fine" they are barely adequate without a lot of expensive work.



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
KTurner
Kevin Turner
Ultra Moderator
Location: Newark, DE
Join Date: 01/27/2006
Age: Midlife Crisis
Posts: 364

Rally Car:
2wd Impreza... dude you should do an sti swap


Re: ding-dong production (class) is dead
November 19, 2013 07:09PM
Quote
alosix
Quote
KTurner
just remember the FR-S sells 3 to 1 over the BRZ

yeah.. but isn't that mostly because some artificial scarcity of the BRZ vs the FRS?

Who knows....
Link to FT86 Forum with sales number comparisons I guess it's more 2.6:1 to date. they'll just be more used scions as a result and they are the same where it counts.



-KTurner
Stomp down on the exhilarator and hold on to the wheel.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
heymagic
Banned
Mega Moderator
Location: La la land
Join Date: 01/25/2006
Age: Fossilized
Posts: 3,740

Rally Car:
Not a Volvo


Re: ding-dong production (class) is dead
November 19, 2013 08:28PM
First hand experience...you have rallied an AWD car ? And stop with all the anecdotal phone call to the White House or Kremlin crap, it impresses no one over the age of 10.

You really should take a step back and look at the large number of people who at one time or another take issue with your constant online abuse.

No one is really questioning your machining abilities, car setup maybe. Limited slow SAAB fwd experience, no RWD, no AWD , ever get a podium out here? Ever win an event out here? Ever get past seed 2 out here? Quit trying to be the only answer and voice of rally. You're not. Try just being the good old helpful guy people need, not the asshole people don't. No one posts on here solely for you pleasure or displeasure. this is a community and some of us happen to like some of the others.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/19/2013 08:34PM by heymagic.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
Anders Green
Anders Green
Mega Moderator
Location: Raleigh, NC
Join Date: 03/30/2006
Age: Possibly Wise
Posts: 1,478

Rally Car:
Parked



Re: ding-dong production (class) is dead
November 19, 2013 08:44PM
Quote
heymagic
Quit trying to be the only answer and voice of rally.

Yeah, that's my job.




Anders, shut up, you idiot.



winking smiley



Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.
Please Login or Register to post a reply
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login