Dave: The gtx trans wasn't in the reliable sentence at all. i said my car and motor have been reliable FWD EGT. Cheap to build was implicating that i use the factory forged internals Specifically said: Transmission wont be an issue. The motors are A. Reliable...

I'm aware that the weak point of this entire build is A: gearbox.
Nowhere in here does it say i'll be pushing huge power/torque, everyone needs to pipe down and chill.

mekilljoydammit: Do you know of any place or interchangeabilities in this catagory as far as the rear end? or do i just need to look harder for a gtx rear as well?

---

Not What You Build... It's How You Built It

Quote
Pashka0788
Dave: The gtx trans wasn't in the reliable sentence at all. i said my car and motor have been reliable FWD EGT. Cheap to build was implicating that i use the factory forged internals Specifically said: Transmission wont be an issue. The motors are A. Reliable...

I'm aware that the weak point of this entire build is A: gearbox.
Nowhere in here does it say i'll be pushing huge power/torque, everyone needs to pipe down and chill.

mekilljoydammit: Do you know of any place or interchangeabilities in this catagory as far as the rear end? or do i just need to look harder for a gtx rear as well?

Ok, so I mixed up "reliable" and "won't be an issue." Please do share on how the transmission won't be an issue to you? Hundreds of GTX enthusiasts would LOVE to hear your fix for their popsicle sticks and bubble gum transmissions. Seriously - these gearboxes make the WRX 5-speeds look reliable.

Also - I could be off base here, but normally when you go to a custom ground stroker crank, you have to replace both the pistons and rods with aftermarket units because of the dimensions changing, so you're pretty much negating the benefit that they come with forgies from the factory. I'd say this is a great place to save some coin on your build. Just keep the stock forged internals and crank, and as others have said, a little more boost and you're right where you'd have been with the 2.0L.

Get a GTX rear end. There's plenty of GTXs now rusting apart, so I'd bet finding a rear end wouldn't be nearly as difficult as finding a good working transmission. Once you have one, order up a clutch-pack diff from MazdaMotorsports - one of the best handling upgrades you can do on a GTX.

Dave

I'd go for the GTX rear. Honestly I'd go for the whole GTX if I was that married to the Mazda B series motors, or something else entirely, but that's me.

And when you have a wishlist including a 4.5k stroker kit, cams, and 1000cc/min injectors, yeah, people are going to interpret that as being preeeeeetty abitious about power goals.

Also, this is a rally site. Not that you're going to get tarred and feathered if that isn't your intent, but more or less everyone is gauging their responses based on the assumption that you're intending to actually go rally.

Yes this will be a rally car here. Maybe i can be a lil more specific with numbers rather than just a general setup for more understandability rather than confusion? Lesson learned there lol I'm sorry for disrepecring anyone but i asked for help even crunching numbers on my motor still, so i will gather up an actual parts list, benefits and some actual numbers so theirs no further confusions, like I said suggestions are great but this is a build I am gonna do no matter how much its not liked.

---

Not What You Build... It's How You Built It

Quote
Pashka0788
Yes this will be a rally car here. Maybe i can be a lil more specific with numbers rather than just a general setup for more understandability rather than confusion? Lesson learned there lol I'm sorry for disrepecring anyone but i asked for help even crunching numbers on my motor still, so i will gather up an actual parts list, benefits and some actual numbers so theirs no further confusions, like I said suggestions are great but this is a build I am gonna do no matter how much its not liked.

Keep in mind its not that people don't "like" your build idea, its that this is a site dedicated to people rallying. More often than not, new folks have this great idea in their head for some crazy build...and the cars never get finished. That leads those folks to talk bad about rally in general and that does nothing to help further the sport.

IMO building an AWD car for a newb is a complete waste of time, because once its built, you'll be forced to run with the more modern machinery (WRX, Evos, etc) and you'll either get pissed off at not having all the modern doodads, or you'll spend a small fortune trying to make the best of a poor decision.

Feel free to use me as a good example of learning the hard way. I put the GTX together to have fun. Got hooked on going sideways. Pumped over $20k into that car before I was done and it took me 6 months to be able to sell it. I took the proceeds and bought suspension for my new car....yes, that's all I was able to get out of it. The proceeded to realize how god damned expensive it was to run the more modern car...even though things like power and drivetrain were dead nuts reliable. Then I realized it wasn't blazing speeds that was what was "doing it" for me...it was the driving out the side windows...so I'm building a RWD car which should cost a fraction to run.

Most on here agree that whatever car you start with will cost around $6-8k to prep for your first event on the very low end of the spectrum. If you are KB or TP, that number could jump to $250k+. Buying your first rally car can sometimes be a better way to get your feet wet, find out what you like and don't like, and then once you've trashed that car...build something that takes into account as many of your wants as possible.

Be smart about your intentions, goals, and most importantly your budget. Getting the car built isn't the expensive part about owning a rally car. Think about what happens when you flip it...or stuff it into a ditch...or...just use it and you have to do routine maintenance. Custom one-off stuff starts to seem pretty silly pretty quickly. Don't forget to factor in how expensive it is to actually enter and tow to events too.

Dave

It isn't about liking or not liking. Pretty much all of us here have seen lots of people come in with ambitious ideas like that, that are much more trouble than taking more proven ways. Almost all of the time they're being proposed by people who don't have any idea how much work what they're talking about is, people who haven't prepped cars before, so on. And so then you get to see someone who was enthusiastic about rally spend years building something and probably get burned out before turning a wheel on stage. Or someone who had some ambitious oddball project give up because all the one-off oddball parts necessary made it impossible to have spares, and unaffordable to be competitive or often to even keep running at all.

If you seriously are married to this idea, get the shell built, get it moving even with a stock 323GTX driveline. The motor build's the last thing you need to be worrying about right now.

I got $100 that you'll never come close to finishing it.

The more time, money, and effort you spend on a rally car the more you will suck on stage. Everyone will say, "Wow, look at that old 92 Escort. My grandma could drive faster than that. What!?!?! It's turbo and AWD??? Why's he so slow in it?"
Or, if you actually pedal the thing, ya know risking throwing away all of those years of work getting to that point, you'll probably disappear after your first big crash because all that time and effort is impossible to do again now that you are 27, married, paying a mortgage, and have two kids.
Build something quickly and simply and get to the first rally you possibly can. Look at what Brian's rallyracingnews.com link shows. A stock Escort can do okay. Cage that fucker and get out on stage competing. You don't sound like a wanker so I don't know why you'd want to build a wanker car. Because that is what you will spend YEARS doing. Wanking to the dream build when right now you should be driving the piss out of the thing and taking big chances and risking destroying the car every corner and learning how to drive it fast the whole time.

Here's a quote from Alex K about his first WRC event in Finland this year:

Quote

Now I realize why everyone has such big offs in Finland. If you're uncertain about something, and you back off, you will get beat. Every stage you will get beat until it builds up to an insurmountable deficit that you could never possibly make up just by pushing harder..that's why, if you're unsure about a note, you have to go with what you believe it is, rather than going just a little conservative with the note to be safe. If it's wrong, fuck it. You end up in the trees. If you slow down, fuck it. You'll get destroyed. The times are so close because you simply can't go any faster on fast, smooth stages like that. They're pushing through the stages like it's a Grand Prix. Every corner has to be perfect. The person who wins the rally is the person who's able to do that for 3 days without going off. It's unbelievable.

That's how everyone in Finland drives. They sustain it by having their national championship, Group F, being based on cars with expired homologation. That is, older cars that should be cheaper to build. That Volvo video that Jari posted is one of the top cars. Go watch it.

---

Grant Hughes

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Pashka0788

Quote
john vanlandingham

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Pashka0788
And good luck finding a cosworth anywhere near here. .

It's your day to good luck!
Suggested routes

211 mi, 3 hours 42 mins
In current traffic: 3 hours 42 min
Salem, OR

1. Head east on Center St NE toward Church St NE


0.4 mi
2. Turn left onto Capitol St NE


1.1 mi
3. Continue onto Fairgrounds Rd NE


0.3 mi
4. Continue onto Portland Rd NE


2.0 mi
5. Slight right to merge onto I-5 N toward Portland
Entering Washington



204 mi
6. Take exit 154 to merge onto I-405 S/WA-518 W toward Burien


0.5 mi
7. Continue onto WA-518 W


0.9 mi
8. Take the exit toward Sea-Tac Airport


0.8 mi
9. Merge onto Airport Expressway


0.9 mi
10. Slight right onto Departures Dr
Destination will be on the right



0.4 mi

Seattle-Tacoma International Airport
17801 International Boulevard
Seattle, WA 98


How many do you want?
Special this week only!

Do you sell them? Is there a site i been looking for one i'd much rather have a cosworth. And awd EGT is a project im willing to build cause these arent available to me.

I'll sell you my own 4x4 Cossie power Xratty. You'll need to add X or V in the rood, X or sill bar in the doors, finish plumbing the FIA bag tank and finish the cover, hook up fuel and brake pipes bolt the rad and intercooler in and go.
I even have turbos with restrictors.

All rebuilt motor with a nice zero-zero crank, forged J&E pistons, MLS gasket and studs, AP racing CP3380 pressureplate and some puck disc.
Genuine Ford 909 Bilstein suspension with rear magnesium shocks---choice of gearing options---although a smart fellow would ask for the 3.9 set up. Comes with:
Ford's massive brilliant Group A chassi rail engine mounts
Clean WA title.

I'd sell it for just a bit more than the stock caged Focus posted here somewhere..

And I have lots of spares of all the critical things you would be smart to have (driveshafts, front diffs, control arms brakes, hubs, sensors, cap rotors, manifolds..)
Even have 2 spare all rebuilt engines:

The 4x4:


In the car:



The other 2 fully rebuilt ones



So, how many you want?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

I do have the car down to a rolling chassis I'm already there. The engine is for more than one car. The AWD drivetrain I found to be the easiest route with the gtx parts, fabrication believe or not is pretty minimal and no problem to me by any means. It's not in my garage but in my shop stored away till I get down to more research. The engine was to give y'all the idea of the foundation I'm working with, I also can use the motor in my other cars... All escorts gt's one fwd and the other RWD from miata. I want to now build a AWD for rally. One engine three cars all for different purposes. Hell the fwd has a KIA sephia trans, why? It's direct bolt on with a better and stronger gearset. The RWD I'm thinkin I may change over to the fe3 Mazda build using a b2200 RWD trans and finding a stronger rear end. That's a totally different car on a totally different subject though. Like I said I'll gather up a real numbers parts list and be a lil more specific. And on another note, I bought each car for $200 or less, and the mod for RWD cost me $450 to build using the same motor in the car, I dont believe it'll cost me to terribly much for the AWD, I know how to set in the rear end already and what it takes to fabricate.

---

Not What You Build... It's How You Built It

John! Awesome, how much? And what car do you have that in? It's hard to tell with nothin in it. And I'm looking to have a 909 shell shipped but it'll be quite awhile, about two years before that comes along. I would like to keep in contact for that I'm a bit ill knowledged as far as the cossies go cause i have yet to personally see one. I can read bout that all day long doesn't mean I know the first thing about them lol. I believe those are the YB motor family correct?

Sorry about originally saying Dave, I'm doing this on my phone kinda difficult sorry for my confusion...

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Not What You Build... It's How You Built It



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2012 08:18PM by Pashka0788.

Quote
Pashka0788
John! Awesome, how much? And what car do you have that in? It's hard to tell with nothin in it. And I'm looking to have a 909 shell shipped but it'll be quite awhile, about two years before that comes along. I would like to keep in contact for that I'm a bit ill knowledged as far as the cossies go cause i have yet to personally see one. I can read bout that all day long doesn't mean I know the first thing about them lol. I believe those are the YB motor family correct?

Sorry about originally saying Dave, I'm doing this on my phone kinda difficult sorry for my confusion...

Cheap at twice the price.
The car is a USDM Merkur Xratty shell with a later "almost wide' tunnel welded in and modded for the transfer case clearance.
Forget bring a shell in, if a road car its a road car, if its caged it will not pass without the sam emods my thing---a late 90s FIA spec---needs.

As for seeing one its right here only 3h11m away.
And yes its YB, the one in the car is a gen-u-whine YBG, 200 Block, 4wd everything, safe and sound at over 500 bhp if you're crazy, the 2 spares are YBB, 205 block, 2wd, safe and sane to high 300s.. Like run it a long time.
The gearbox is escort Cossie MT75-4x4. stock ratios, stock diff ratios. But 3.9 front and rear diffs available for serious folks (makes up for the taller tires: tall tires gear you UP, shorter ratio brings you back.

The shell was completely stripped of all sound and rust proofing and its the most thorough stitch welding I've seen since I was at ford Motorsport in 1989 for job interviews.

They wonderful thing about the Ford set up is its N/S so weight balance is excellent, and the normal split is 33% front/66% rear and the car feels like a excellently balance rwd car plus a smidge more stable...


But seriously, do you have any idea how many guys since I started fucking with Cossie 4x4 stuff in the 90s have said " wha wha wha WAH wah......in about 2 years...wha wha wha WAH wha"?

I'll make it multiple choice.
[ ] zero to one
[ ] two to 10
[ ] 11 to 25
[ ] more than 50


2 years? My children will starve in 2 years.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

I can buy sooner than later to have it built and ready, do you have transmissions as well?

---

Not What You Build... It's How You Built It

Quote
Pashka0788
I can buy sooner than later to have it built and ready, do you have transmissions as well?

You mean more than the one that is in it?
Yeah, of course. How many?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Study this nice simple fwd car. You know it as 1988-89 Pontiac leMans, we know it as the class standard for all the 90s Opel Kadett GSI with the GM "XE" 2.0 16v:

<object width="640" height="360"><param name="movie" value="

?version=3&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param>

That driving would be every car in North America except POSSIBLY 1-2 turbo 4wd guys on wide open roads..

You really want to live in the garage and have something that is nowhere near this performance?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Ooooh Ooooh, lookie what's hiding in this picture:


And guess what stayed HOME this weekend at Black River? Hint (it's also hiding in this picture).