LDR XR Update

John, why do something completely different from everybody else doing Xratties (except an old Dino) and just COPY FORDS DESIGN and LAYOUT, seems it'd take far less time and effort since while there are obviously dozens of ways to skin a cat and its imposible to say which is more soooper bitching than the next, Ford's own design is very very likely to be as good as anything you guys might cook up.
And its a done design so there is a TIME advantage.

Really I find it puzzling to a degree I can't express that everybody has great examples and yet they decide to invent their own stuff.

I guess the failing is mine in just not trusting that my own creative genius is so much better than the full time professionals who designed and refined for 10 years Fords design.

By the way, I have more stuff to send you soon...

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

John, I'm not sure what exactly you're referring to about doing something completely different than others?

Running a piece of box down the sill is common and takes no sigificant time to do. Makes it nice to be able to jack anywhere on the sill if need be as well.

Anyway, none of us are building our cars for spec Merkur class, are we? :-)

Part of the fun of this business is skinning the cat in a different(and perhaps better) way.

Check with me before you send me anymore stuff! You never told me what I owe for the tow hooks(and never told me how they're actually supposed to mount!). :-)

Cheers! John

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http://www.lastditchracing.com
http://www.triplecaution.us

John Cassidy Wrote:
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> John, I'm not sure what exactly you're referring
> to about doing something completely different than
> others?
Well aside from the 4 I've built, everybody is making cages with stuff all over the place and all creative.
>
> Running a piece of box down the sill is common and
> takes no sigificant time to do. Makes it nice to
> be able to jack anywhere on the sill if need be as
> well.
No not that, thats fine, I doubled it myself with 0625 in a Y shape.
>
> Anyway, none of us are building our cars for spec
> Merkur class, are we? :-)
N
No but the question to all is why get creative when there's so much to do, why not take advantage of the design already worked out??
Its a question.
>
> Part of the fun of this business is skinning the
> cat in a different(and perhaps better) way.

Perhaps, but I have never felt a twinge of desire to get creative when I have clear cut solutions and particularly proven solutions.
It is simply easier to copy proven stuff when we can I feel, cause there so much we can't substitute anything other than LABOR, so design stuff particularly the cage, I say why not copy to the degree we can??
>
> Check with me before you send me anymore stuff!

Of course.

> You never told me what I owe for the tow hooks(and
> never told me how they're actually supposed to
> mount!). :-)
Didn't I refer you to the drawings in the Motorsport manuals??

John
>
> Cheers! John
>
>
>
>

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

John, re=read your original reply this AM and realize you think I'm getting creative with the cage?! Maybe I typed something that I didn't mean to.

We have software with the bender that will allow us to store the cage design. It will produce a build-sheet, which shows what tubes get bent when and in what order. This allows a cage to be reproduced over and over in the same way.

If someone has the same software, and is building a car, I'd be happy to share the file with anyone. Talk about saving time! :-)

The cage will be based on current FIA rules and be very similar to what's in our Subaru. Same design I've seen elswehere in pictures on this site.

We don't have time to reinvent the wheel! ;-)

Now, we will be making a custom steering rack subframe though...

Cheers! John

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http://www.lastditchracing.com
http://www.triplecaution.us

john vanlandingham Wrote:
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> Perhaps, but I have never felt a twinge of desire
> to get creative when I have clear cut solutions
> and particularly proven solutions.
> It is simply easier to copy proven stuff when we
> can I feel, cause there so much we can't
> substitute anything other than LABOR, so design
> stuff particularly the cage, I say why not copy to
> the degree we can??

Sometimes it's easier to get a little creative and base things upon things that have been improved upon over the last 20 years though. And things like cages aren't rocket science and just as Ford isn't using the same design in the new Focus why should we copy things exactly how they've were done for years?

Sometimes designing things from scratch takes less effort, money, and most importantly time than copying a proven design. Take brakes for example. The bolt-in dual master cylinder setup from Checkpoint Racing costs about $350 and there is no time required to fabricate and cut up parts and such and the only time required is the time to ship the parts. Or the rear disc brakes. It cost me under $1000 to build a custom rear brake upgrade made to fit our cars. Less than 2 month development and build time. I've spent nearly $600 in the last 18 months trying to replicate Ford's fronts and have nothing to show for it other than $600 less in my pocket and a pair of custom brake hats.

Your program thing for the cage sounds pretty cool John. I can't wait to see, but more importantly hear, how it works out for you. We spent all day working on two Subaru cages. The Impreza is nearly done, just lots of welding and a couple more bars. The Legacy is off to a fine start and only needs about two more short days worth of work. But have a few people needing cages next and anything to help make a job more efficient I always welcome. You'll have to post some pics of the bender you are making as well.

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Grant Hughes

Grant, I agree with your points. We race our Subaru in Open Class because it allows us to do things cheaper(usually) without the necessity to stick with stock parts.

Spent the day in the barn(where else!?), continuing work on the car and the bender.

Bender chassis is made from 3/8" steel, and our TIG wasn't up to it. We broke the MIG machine and the acetylene tank was empty in the torch rig. Just couldn't catch a break! Guess we're going to have to stick weld it. The bender is by far the most industrial piece of gear we've fabbed in the shop. I'm buff from lifting the honking steel all day...ok, sore, not buff. ;-)

Here's the link to the bender we're using and the hydraulic conversion:

http://reference.toolandfab.com/writeups/hydrobender_webpage/index.htm

Here's a link to the software:

http://vansantent.com/bend_tech_softwarePRO.htm

Got the 1" square tubing down the passenger side and were going to do the driver's side before the MIG shit the bed.

The software will allow us to design parts virtually and then bend them quickly(and repeatedly). We have a bunch of ideas, but only so much time!

We're trying to get the Merkur caged so that it can go outside and the Subaru be brought in for some TLC.

Cheers! John

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http://www.lastditchracing.com
http://www.triplecaution.us

Here's a pic of the reinforced rail:

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http://www.lastditchracing.com
http://www.triplecaution.us

A picture of our hydraulic tubing bender, nearly complete. Awaiting electrical and fluid connections.

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http://www.lastditchracing.com
http://www.triplecaution.us

That bender looks pretty sweet.
Much less tiring than pumping like we do.

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Grant Hughes

We should have it moving under power by the end of the day tomorrow. Need to make sure everything is 100%. With the forces we'll be dealing with, I don't want anything breaking or coming off.

Cheers! John

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http://www.lastditchracing.com
http://www.triplecaution.us

The bender moved under hydraulic power for the first time today! A lot longer coming than I expected, but each week, my window of opportunity to buy parts etc is small.

We'll be bending for the first time next weekend if all goes to plan.

We fried our MIG welder, and autopsy today showed a capacitor gone bad. New one is on the way, and hopefully that's the only problem with the unit. :-)

Once we get the other 1" sqaure tube welded to the passenger rail, we'll put the sill jack stand mounts in and flip the car back upright and start measuring/bending for the cage.

Hoping to make a wheeled dolly that can be used to move shells around the yard that have the sill jack stand mounts. Another project.... ;-)

I'll post some more pics of our adventures as we progress.

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http://www.lastditchracing.com
http://www.triplecaution.us

Got the sills welded shut today and put the car upright and back on the lift. Tomorrow we'll start measuring for the cage. Still waiting for some high pressure bending lube to be delivered.

Are folks dropping their main hoops through the floor of the car to weld the top of the bars? With our Subaru, we took the roof off, and I really don't want to do that with the Merkur if I can help it.

Cheers! John

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http://www.lastditchracing.com
http://www.triplecaution.us

We have the bottoms of the main hoop going to the ledge, and with some finagling were able to drop each corner down at a time to weld around the tops. Worked pretty easy for us.

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Grant Hughes

Thanks for that info Grant. We're debating whether to put it on some taller footings to allow us to drop it a bit or drop it through some holes in the floor.

Cheers! John

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http://www.lastditchracing.com
http://www.triplecaution.us

See pics in my 'Some Progress Pics' thread. Didn't want to fill your thread with pictures of my car.

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Grant Hughes