22R Toyota Turbo pistons?

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FunctionAuto

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Morison

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john vanlandingham
But how much of each depends to a HUGE degree on the cylinder diameter.

Honestly curious about why that is.
I'm not suggesting it isn't, not questioning that is the case at all, just genuinely curious why.

Same here and does it and does bore have more bearing than having a well shaped combustion chamber or proper quench?

OK--very briefly and generally.
To make sense in analysis we have to try and make a thought experiment where "all things being equal", so look at two motors thenwhen done compare what is suggested with as many real world examples as we can easily.

According to Ahemed Bayjoo in a long phone conversation, he said "its all about the distance the flame has to travel"

We have very limited time to burn the mix in the hole, and as we all know gas burns and higher octane burns slower/cooler and that works against what we might want---but above all we dont want instantaneous explosions..
Take some Honda/VW thing (please!) , the cars actually MOVE, and sometimes they move real well. They have say 81.5 bore. How long does it take to burn across fully just 81.5mm... We'll say "this long".....it burns across 81.5mm and move the car "real good" and its DONE.

Then look at some old school thing like a Ford or Volvo 2300 both being exact same bore and stroke (and head bolt spacing) of 96mm x 80mm.
Spark! flames moves oh say 81.5mm and as we saw from the previous example, the temp/pressure was pretty damn good--enough to move a car at that point.. Well the Ford/Volvo thing still has a long way to go except now temp and pressure in the hole is pretty high...
There's the danger for the REST of the stuff to simply light off---detonate because the temp/pressure is so high..

Anybody older---or patient enough to go back 35 years and check stated reasons for many newer designs back then and for example Honda said "we use narrow bore because a) the inline engine is shorter which is important in E/W applications (like inline 4 bikes and fwd cars) and b) combustion efficiency"

There are drawbacks to narrow bores---like: where are you going to fit the valves? or the flip side "oh, boy there's room for lots of vale size in 96mm"
But that's another story..

I have to go grocery shopping now. More later.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

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phlat65
Do tell... Which VW pistons?

Same ones I've used in Saab V4, Saab 99 and 900, Opels Ford V6, Nissan L16/L18/L20B, Mitsubishi G32

Got 8 downstars now in 94mm for a V6 ford dealio.

But not dished......they're all flat tops 39.5 comp hgt or 34.5

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

go with the chevy pistons, you can get the right dish

i recall i used 94s and gave the jugs to a bud with a vw drag car

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I would rather drive a slow car fast as a fast car slow!
first rule of cars: get what makes you happy, your the one paying for it!

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Morison

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john vanlandingham
But how much of each depends to a HUGE degree on the cylinder diameter.

Honestly curious about why that is.
I'm not suggesting it isn't, not questioning that is the case at all, just genuinely curious why.

More bore means the shape near TDC is flatter, with a higher percentage of air/fuel away from the spark plug where it's harder to start burning. That makes detonation a lot easier.

One engine builder/designer felt that, for a certain engine, there was no sense in going over an 84mm bore because of diminishing returns - the marginal increase in displacement wasn't enough to offset the increase in detonation sensitivity.

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Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.

I'll ask the obvious, why not put in a 2rz with a turbo? It's way better than anything 22r.

that is a matter of opinion

old is cool has a charm

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I would rather drive a slow car fast as a fast car slow!
first rule of cars: get what makes you happy, your the one paying for it!

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tdrrally
that is a matter of opinion

old is cool has a charm

It is hardly a matter of opinion, the modern motor is really nice..
The designers did learn a whole lot between 1975 and 2005.

The question of plopping something different in is another separate question, but that question does not have anything to do with which is a better design...
Almost any pent roof 4 valve head is worlds better than any 70s big open combustion chamber, nearly no quench pad design, just in a combustion efficiency point of view, not even considering port location, way more valve area, and the path of the incoming charge for inducing tumble.

That said, for a moderate power project with a turbo, 22R could be pretty good IF the guy decides to do it right and that means custom pistons---zero or a smidge above deck (like .004) modern dish shape (CNC dish with BIG radius at the top for det resistance...), and strong..


All this is in all liklihood just talk tho, the guy will probably just slam some cast junk together, save a few hundred bucks and then have a poopy motor.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

some folks like an air cooled bike over a water cooled

some like an mg miget of a wrx

some think the old small block chevy is better than a newer ls engine

its all about opinion

the 22r is less money to buy and build, but does not make as much power

like an air cooled vw is a great power plant, but for what it costs to make 140hp you can buy and install a 2.2 suby or watercooled vw engine

do what works for you, its your time and money

i have looked into installing a 3sgt toyota engine in a rwd celica (tct replica) , and i might in the future.
that said the old school charm of an 18rg makes me smile too

volvo , xratty , ect

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I would rather drive a slow car fast as a fast car slow!
first rule of cars: get what makes you happy, your the one paying for it!

Pics of tct replica or ban!

like this

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I would rather drive a slow car fast as a fast car slow!
first rule of cars: get what makes you happy, your the one paying for it!

Quote
tdrrally
some folks like an air cooled bike over a water cooled

some like an mg miget of a wrx

some think the old small block chevy is better than a newer ls engine

its all about opinion

the 22r is less money to buy and build, but does not make as much power

like an air cooled vw is a great power plant, but for what it costs to make 140hp you can buy and install a 2.2 suby or watercooled vw engine

do what works for you, its your time and money

i have looked into installing a 3sgt toyota engine in a rwd celica (tct replica) , and i might in the future.
that said the old school charm of an 18rg makes me smile too

volvo , xratty , ect

Sorry Ed, "it" is not "all about opinion"..

What somebody may like is of course a matter of opinion, but
who can argue about "like"?

And sorry but even when some people want to justify their "liking" something, that still doesn't mean their opinion about what is better is correct.. It's just typical rationalization.

There is a such thing as better, and as much as I may love my old push rod cast iron V4, there are things which are better---better material, better combustion chamber designs, better manifold designs, and there are some things which are worse---for making power which is the subject (it is a turbo 22R we were talking about and a turbo motor is about making more poop)


If the subject was "bench-wanking about what we believe", which it's not, then "everything is all about opinion".

A smrat man said "We're all entitled to our own opinions, but we're not entitled to our own facts".

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

fact is if the custmer wants a turbo yugo and has the money to pay for it
then the that is what the custmer gets

i may not agree but that is not what matters

a 22rt would be a great power plant with in its limits

a 3sgt would be better, but if the man wants a 22rt then by all means do it!!

its your money and time spend it how you want!!

for a rally motor dont bother with the turbo run it as is

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I would rather drive a slow car fast as a fast car slow!
first rule of cars: get what makes you happy, your the one paying for it!

I need to chime in and support JV on this one.

What a person wants is one thing, but that doesn't for one second make it a wise choice. As we say here..just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

There's a Celica here in state that's been running for few years that is rumored to potentially be for sale soon.

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Grant Hughes

Maybe some more info. This is for his daily driver 4x4 toyota truck. He just wants a bit more torque, so he can go up the freeway without downshifting ect. All the things he has done/bought so far are basically stock Toyota Turbo 22r parts, except the really nice T3 manifold he found. He is not looking for crap tons of torque, just a mild 10psi motor.