Roll Cage inspection

Hey everyone,

As far as you guys can see, do you think this would pass tech and be logbooked?








E: For picture sizes.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2012 12:34PM by irishfire.

Sorry for the lack of details. I'm in Boise, Idaho trying to finish this car up. Was brought to my attention that this may not pass inspection. Had it built by a local 4x4 shop and they will fix any issues that are brought up. Thanks again.

Hi Rally Alex From Idaho #2!

im sure youll get the advice you need here. But as i stated there are several things in the NASA log book you were looking at, that were simply not met.

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I don't know for sure on the location of the bars, but it doesn't have any of the required gussets. But, good to have the general cage OK'd before doing the finishing work. If you have any way to scale down those images, it'll make it easier for people to view!

Here's a few things that raise questions in my eyes (though I don't know if any of them are actually problems):

Your "a-pillar support bar" may not be within 10cm of the top of the windshield bar.

Why does the main hoop bow back inwards to attach to the floor ~5" from the edge of the car? Normally those go straight down.

Front A-pillar bars seem to be pretty far away from the chassis. No reason those bars shouldn't be resting right up against the frame, but I don't think those are so far away as to be not legal. I'm not sure if its the angle of the pictures, but it appears the gap on the passenger side is a bit larger than the gap on the drivers side.

Can't say I remember seeing rear cage stays go to the floor (except in drag racing cages). Normally rally folks tie those in to the rear shock towers and beef up that whole area.

Dave

I'm not sure on the NASA rules, but for FIA, you dont have gussets on the main hoop cross bars or the windscreen reinforcement. Whats the distance of the top weld of the windscreen reinforcement from the connection to the roof bar? it shouldn't be more than 100mm away (3.93". I think the windscreen reinforcement should connect to the bottom of the lateral bar....and the door bar connection to the lateral bar looks really high, should be no more than 100mm as well.

The back stays should connect to the strut towers and at a minimum shouldn't be located further back than these points in any case.

Your main hoop bottom bend looks funny....its a massive bend and really far from the body contour...I'm not sure if this matters...but I would ever do allow that if it was up to me at least.

I think someone messed up on your cage design.....

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My Build

Looks like a halo instead of side laterals and windshield bar?

So it looks like the general consensus is that I need more gussets on the main hoop x's. Anywhere else?
Back stays get moved to rear strut towers.
Lower part of main hoop is bent inward (weird, and I don't know why they did that.)
See if everything can be tucked closer to body pillars
I'll measure the top to bottom length of the windshield support. Should be below 4'.

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irishfire
So it looks like the general consensus is that I need more gussets on the main hoop x's. Anywhere else?
Back stays get moved to rear strut towers.
Lower part of main hoop is bent inward (weird, and I don't know why they did that.)
See if everything can be tucked closer to body pillars
I'll measure the top to bottom length of the windshield support. Should be below 4'.

The only thing that can really be done at this point is adding gussets and re-doing the rear stays. All the other stuff would require the entire thing to be cut out, scrapped, and designed from scratch.

Unfortunately I've seen this all too often when people use a shop that specializes in ______ (insert anything other than rally here) cages. I had to re-do the door bars in my cage because they were taller than half the door opening.

Hopefully one of the tech inspector guys will chime in here so you can get an official go/no-go. You could also try emailing whoever is in charge of tech at either RA or NASA. Either way, best of luck and stick with it!

Dave

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Carl S
Looks like a halo instead of side laterals and windshield bar?

You got me curious so I looked at the NRS rules:

http://www.nasarallysport.com/rules-forms/2012-NASA-Rally-Sport-GRR-Appendix-B.pdf

Seems they don't have the same requirement of continuous half-laterals that Rally America has.

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DaveK
Your "a-pillar support bar" may not be within 10cm of the top of the windshield bar.

You got that backwards, the FIA bar MUST be within 10cm of the windshield bar. Doesn't make sense the other way since they generally connect to the same node.

But looking over the NASA rules, it appears all the FIA Art. 253 dimensional requirements aren't enforced. But I didn't look very hard, so maybe they are.

I hate to say this but I doubt the main hoop will pass. If you read the NASA rules for roll cages here.

http://www.nasarallysport.com/rules-forms/2012-NASA-Rally-Sport-GRR-Appendix-B.pdf

Section 2.1 The second to last paragraph It reads:
The vertical part of the main rollbar, or rear legs of a lateral roll bar, must be as straight as possible and as close as
possible to the interior contour of the body shell.

Your main hoop does not have a vertical part the cage builder bent them toward the leg toward the center of the car. I am not a scrutineer. If you are going for a NASA log book. I would call one of the scrutineers listed here.

http://www.nasarallysport.com/main/contact


Good luck and get the car finished even if it means a new cage.

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Nubby

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DaveK
Your "a-pillar support bar" may not be within 10cm of the top of the windshield bar.

You got that backwards, the FIA bar MUST be within 10cm of the windshield bar. Doesn't make sense the other way since they generally connect to the same node.

I was intending to say "it doesn't look like that bar is within 10cm but I can't quite tell" but not worded as eloquently as it could've been. To be clear to the OP, FIA Article 253-49 shows the dimensions we're talking about. Scroll down to page 20 to see that diagram:

http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/1B58641F5BF3AF4AC1257A8A0038BF8D/$FILE/253%20%2812-13%29-%2828.09.2012%29.pdf

As a cage builder seeing work like this just makes me sick to my stomach. This is what happens when someone builds a cage without being aware or not understanding what the rules are. Also, the fit is horrendous. I can't fathom why the cage is so far away from the body. And the attachment points are terrible. I'm sorry to sound like a Debbie Downer and come across so harsh but I have high standards and I'm just being honest. If it were me I cut it all out and start over but I suppose it can be made legal enough to get a log book with the necessary gussets and such. Just read the rulebook, it will tell you what you need and maybe show the shop pictures of what a real rally car cage looks like.

Need more details about what is going on at the top of the a-pillar.
Can you take a picture from the floor pan looking up at it?

Door bar is probably too high but could be measured. (see FIA diagram 253-49)

Main hoop inward bends were probably so they could get in there easily to weld.

The rear stays may be legal depending upon interpretation... "The backstays must be attached near the roofline and near the top outer bends of the main rollbar on both sides of the car. They must form an angle of at least 30 degrees with the vertical, and be straight and as close as possilbe to the interior side panels of the body shell.

My personal opinion. Scrap it. There should be a better and more equipped builder in your area.

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Grant Hughes

Talk with the guy who built it and charged you _________(how much).
Tell him it is not a legal cage and you wanted a legal cage. If he didn't know then he should have said so, and or had you supply him with the specs of a legal cage..
I want to say "ask the fawkin fool what sort of strength does he think in in the flat rear trunk floor of a gawddam Rare-bit, why did he miss the shock towers?"

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

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