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audi 80 back at it!

Posted by aj_johnson 
aj_johnson
A.J. Johnson
Ultra Moderator
Location: Pendleton OR
Join Date: 01/07/2011
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 1,353

Rally Car:
88 Audi 80


Re: audi 80 back at it!
September 17, 2014 11:28AM
Been a while- Got distracted with keeping a roof over my families head. One tip to any future homeowners, shell out for a mold inspection prior to purchasing. Had to move the wife and kids out of state to be with family because it causes some nasty health issues. On the plus side they will be moving back in on Thursday!

To catch up, I bought and then re sold the spare motor as I figured I wouldn't be getting around to the car anytime soon, but couldn't stay away from it anyway. I did remove the head and inspect the internals. The bottom end looked great, but the head was warped a bit. I had a local shop machine it who buggered it up and took .024 out of it. Then had another shop fix the buggered up job and they took another .010 out of it... Motor will be going e85 as soon as I get around to buying injectors

As shown above I built a fresh wire harness, am going to build the dash out of Aluminum and put in a bunch of idiot lights for coolant, oil etc. Had a buddy come over tonight and persuade me to take a break from the house to slap the motor back together. Need to install the harness, add fluids and put the front end back on, so he's threatening to bring beer over another night this week to finish it up. Might be driving again next weekend.

Terrible pics, just so its not entirely boring.
wiring



motor in


Manifolds, and fuel rail on- can see a test fit of part of the new harness on the coils in the back.


Anai Rally, Home Renovation, and Speed shop- Buddies Boxter came over to do motor mounts, brakes and wheel bearings on all 4 corners. I need a bigger shop- cant fit half my house, a race car and a friends toy into it so clearly it needs to be bigger!
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Pete
Pete Remner
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Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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Re: audi 80 back at it!
September 17, 2014 12:25PM
Envying your rack of coils.



Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.
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aj_johnson
A.J. Johnson
Ultra Moderator
Location: Pendleton OR
Join Date: 01/07/2011
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 1,353

Rally Car:
88 Audi 80


Re: audi 80 back at it!
September 17, 2014 02:43PM
Marc swanson sells em cheap, like 30$ ea. Also have a set of 8 truck coils with the nice heat sink I picked up.
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Pete
Pete Remner
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Re: audi 80 back at it!
September 17, 2014 04:36PM
$30 a coil? I can get 'em for $40 for a rack of four.

I guess the envy is the location (both mounting and the idea of CNP on a 10v) rather than the material. I'll be there... eventually... maybe.

I mentioned to someone that I was shooting for the highest powered 10v in the US. He said my plan was dumb and going for a record is not the thing to do if you are on a budget. I had to explain that nobody ever bothers with 10v power and the US record is something silly low like 370whp which should be *just* attainable with what I'm putting together.



Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2014 04:38PM by Pete.
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA
Join Date: 12/20/2005
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Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: audi 80 back at it!
September 17, 2014 05:13PM
Quote
Pete
$30 a coil? I can get 'em for $40 for a rack of four.

I guess the envy is the location (both mounting and the idea of CNP on a 10v) rather than the material. I'll be there... eventually... maybe.

I mentioned to someone that I was shooting for the highest powered 10v in the US. He said my plan was dumb and going for a record is not the thing to do if you are on a budget. I had to explain that nobody ever bothers with 10v power and the US record is something silly low like 370whp which should be *just* attainable with what I'm putting together.

Uh derp. How could you not make 370.. Miserable 2.1 8v Volvos made nice torquey 330 with K-jet and a Bic lighter for inition..
Shirley 370 is just a question of TIME TO BOOST THE MOTOR...



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
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aj_johnson
A.J. Johnson
Ultra Moderator
Location: Pendleton OR
Join Date: 01/07/2011
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 1,353

Rally Car:
88 Audi 80


Re: audi 80 back at it!
September 17, 2014 05:16PM
Got it^ Is 370 all Jim Green ever got out of his? Shouldn't be to tough at all, I take it that's going in the quantum? That should be a real hoot. Holset? Also still have those 10vt and 20vt manifolds laying around, no cracks.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2014 05:18PM by aj_johnson.
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Pete
Pete Remner
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Re: audi 80 back at it!
September 17, 2014 06:24PM
I will get it running and figure out how the tuning works on the stock manifold and K26 before I reach for the big honkin' Precision turbo and try my hand at making a header.

Jim Green (I think?) claimed something silly like 450-460whp but that was after correcting 369whp for altitude. Altitude correction doesn't really work on a turbo engine, it has this pinwheel thing hanging off the side that corrects for altitude for you, so it makes no sense to correct for the fact that on a naturally aspirated car WOT is only 80kpa or whatever.


John, take a look at his engine bay... see how the engine is canted over against the manifolds which are on the same side of the engine? No room to work, and even worse with the CIS injection that takes up the rest of the space. So the exhaust manifold sucks a lot and will limit you to 250-300hp or so which happens to also be about the limit of a CIS fuel distributor until you get really really fancy, and the upper end of what you can do with the stock turbos available. Given all that, most people who want to fix the fuel and exhaust manifold issues say "well hell, why fuck around with 10v when fixing fuel and exhaust manifold is 75% of the expense of 20 valve head engine which automatically makes more power because it flows more AND detonates less". So people who care about power put in a 20 valve engine and make 500-600hp at the crank with little drama other than rods and clutches being a pain.

So it's not entirely that the 10v sucks, it's that the chassis it is in limits your options, and the people who want to go beyond adding a little boost and calling it good enough will simply go with the 20 valve engine, for which the sky is the limit for power.



Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2014 06:26PM by Pete.
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Josh Wimpey
Josh Wimpey
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Location: VA
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Age: Midlife Crisis
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Sneak the Golf


Re: audi 80 back at it!
September 18, 2014 08:45AM
Jeremy used to have a Quantum with a 10vt in it from an old 5000. Ran on 1993 Haltech and made about 250hp. What a hoot! My 1995 S6 wagon makes about 330whp with a GT2871 turbo setup and is nowhere near as fun as the Quantum was thanks to the 1200 excess lbs.

On the 20vt motors, anything over about 400crank hp requires rods and revving beyond 7200rpm which means a cascade of other crap to keep it together and power that doesn't start till after 4000rpm unless you build a 2.5L stroker which will inevitably come apart in dramatic fashion like every single one that has been built trying to hit 600hp....



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aj_johnson
A.J. Johnson
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Location: Pendleton OR
Join Date: 01/07/2011
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Rally Car:
88 Audi 80


Re: audi 80 back at it!
September 18, 2014 11:37AM
Quote
Josh Wimpey
Jeremy used to have a Quantum with a 10vt in it from an old 5000. Ran on 1993 Haltech and made about 250hp. What a hoot! My 1995 S6 wagon makes about 330whp with a GT2871 turbo setup and is nowhere near as fun as the Quantum was thanks to the 1200 excess lbs.

On the 20vt motors, anything over about 400crank hp requires rods and revving beyond 7200rpm which means a cascade of other crap to keep it together and power that doesn't start till after 4000rpm unless you build a 2.5L stroker which will inevitably come apart in dramatic fashion like every single one that has been built trying to hit 600hp....

I have one of those old haltechs sitting in a box, that I bought from someone who ran it on a quantum. Probably was your brother, never ended up using it, and now I cant bring myself to throw it out.
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Josh Wimpey
Josh Wimpey
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Sneak the Golf


Re: audi 80 back at it!
September 18, 2014 11:54AM
Quote
aj_johnson

I have one of those old haltechs sitting in a box, that I bought from someone who ran it on a quantum. Probably was your brother, never ended up using it, and now I cant bring myself to throw it out.

The resolution in the ECU for the injectors is not fine enough to get a good idle with big enough injectors to support 300hp. This is why all the motorsports stuff from the late 80s early 90s had sequential injection setups ---small injectors for idle---secondary injectors for WOT, high RPM, full boost....

Solution---lots of stoplight revving to keep plugs from fouling and stalling.



____________________________________________________________-

One. Class -- 2WD

www.quantumrallysport.com

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Quantum-Rally-Sport/281129179600?ref=nf
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aj_johnson
A.J. Johnson
Ultra Moderator
Location: Pendleton OR
Join Date: 01/07/2011
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 1,353

Rally Car:
88 Audi 80


Re: audi 80 back at it!
September 18, 2014 12:08PM
Yup, and haltech used those funky temp sensors too. SDS was another one I remember having fun with after buying a car with it installed. I'm still scared to buy injectors to suit reasonable power because of those old systems. Ran VEMS in the last two cars and megasquirt prior to that. Pretty sold on VEMS for bang for buck
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aj_johnson
A.J. Johnson
Ultra Moderator
Location: Pendleton OR
Join Date: 01/07/2011
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 1,353

Rally Car:
88 Audi 80


Re: audi 80 back at it!
September 18, 2014 12:11PM
Hell come to think of it I've got everything shy of a fuel rail I would need to go efi on this 2.0 16v rabbit. Thanks Josh, like I need another project.
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Pete
Pete Remner
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Re: audi 80 back at it!
September 18, 2014 06:05PM
Meanwhile, I drove a Camaro today that had 650cc/in injectors and some years back I put together a Subaru that had side feed injectors, we had to get them from Deatchworks and I think they were 950cc/min, nobody else had Subaru side feeds as big as that at the time and the turbo placement prevented us from putting topfeeds in because of a co-spatial discrepancy between where the turbo inlet was and where a topfeed rail would have to be...



Pete Remner
Cleveland, Ohio

1984 RX-7 (rallycross thing)
1978
Silence is golden, but duct tape is silver.
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aj_johnson
A.J. Johnson
Ultra Moderator
Location: Pendleton OR
Join Date: 01/07/2011
Age: Settling Down
Posts: 1,353

Rally Car:
88 Audi 80


Re: audi 80 back at it!
September 24, 2014 12:15PM

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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Rally Car:
Saab 96 V4



Re: audi 80 back at it!
September 24, 2014 07:49PM
Are you showing us that so we can come up suggestions on where to put the engine oil cooler, the PS cooler and the gearbox oil cooler?



John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.
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