I don't get it, someone car to explain?

SEANT Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----> >Geez Gene, off your meds? I was out of work and
> recovering from several (4)surgeries, hence one
> hand makes it tough, so does lack of funds...and
> your excuse, or are you just pissing and moaning!
>
>
>
> As always IMHO
>
> SEAN TENNIS
> SEATTLE, WASHINGTON
> SAAB 99, SAAB 850


Sean, you know I luv ya ( in a manly way) and I wasn't picking on you directly. I worked DooWops, as I do every year. Chief Scrutineer, Co-Chairman. You were hanging out at the end of Brooklyn ( not literally). I don't think you were helping though...

So, where was everyone else ? I can buy and build a car in 30 days, why can't locals repair a gearbox, brakes, turbo , replace a JDM motor in 5 or 6 months ?? If the locals don't really care, why should anyone ? Yes we lost about 5 cars to Alcan..still way short of what should have been there.

Michel towed all the way up from California, and our guys can't make an effort to get a car off jack stands ? Bigger problem here than entry fees.

There gets to be too much negativity . Too much Subaru abuse. Sube by the way just happened to be smart enough to mass produce a great car in sufficient numbers that makes it a great affordable rally car. Near perfect out of the box. Then they support the sport through contingency, research, sponsorship ( Subaru West pours many thousands into our local program) and national support. Somehow this makes them bad guys ?? Geeesh...

There is nothing wrong with not being able to afford rally, like wise there is nothing wrong with being able to rally. I can't afford to buy a Cup car and go race with Tony Stewart..doesn't make Tony or Nascar bad. Remember Nascar used to run on the beach, in convertables, street clothes and no cages...real stock cars.

Doug Havir put at lot at risk to save a failed SCCA program, JB Niday, Mike Hurst Bob, Bruce, Al and many others spend both money and time to make this program work. Hockers, Anders, Bowers all the same sad story. This is really a 2 part formula..the ones who provide rallies and the one who rallies. Kind of a givers and takers thing. Some of the takers are being very disrespectful, some of the takers really don't even rally...

Rally is a quirky sport that doesn't appeal to everyone. Rally wasn't popular when it was cheap. Cheap gas, cheap tires, cheap cars, cheap entries, roads everywhere. I remember ( vaguely) 20 car fields at divisionals back then. Currently we have roads only in Grays Harbor County on the west side of the Cascades.How is that Subaru's fault or Rally Americas fault or NRS' fault ? No roads, no rally..entry fees, car rules, sanctioning bodies all moot points.

BTW John..you believe that organizer get $50 k in entries, but there isn't actually 40 cars entered at $1200 . Generally it's maybe 20 national and 25 regional ( at $600 each) . So as an organizer you just lost $12K from your budget

PRG is a not for profit group of enthusiats who put on rallies. The meetings are open as well as the treasurers report. All you have to do is attend a meeting in Olympia...not a huge sacrifice. If you have "the answers" please bring them. If you can find roads or workers or ???...please do so.

Constantly chipping away at the providers of rally( 99% volunteers spending their own money and time ) because it's too costly, too stringent, too small, too big, too fast, too rough, too slow, too wet, too dusty, too smooth is counter productive. And it's not just here btw...A lot of people who donate their time at all levels are just tired of it. We are in danger of losing the whole program here. Damitio is 80, Forespring is an antique and not terribly well, Nispel wants to retire..much of PRG is getting gray. Who's going to do all the work next year or the year after ? Me, Alan and McQuaid...I don't think so.

If you don't actually have a car entered at an event you should be working in some capacity. That's the only way to solve any problem.

Now where in the hell did I put those pills ???

Well put Gene.

---

RichardM

Rich Smith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mark,
Maybe the
> RallyMoto guys you mentioned have lessons to teach
> about how they are now getting closed roads in
> your area. Typically, motorcycle guys don’t spend
> a lot of money.
>
> Rich Smith
>

Rich,

You missed the point 100%; the RallyMoto participants aren't closing the roads; the NRS organizers are closing the roads for them, as for the cars, as part of an organized, sanctioned, permitted rally. They don't have any new ideas on that point; they are benefitting from the experienced organizers' expertise, like car ralliers have done for decades.

Mark B.

starion887 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Rich,
>
> You missed the point 100%; the RallyMoto
> participants aren't closing the roads; the NRS
> organizers are closing the roads for them, as for
> the cars, as part of an organized, sanctioned,
> permitted rally. They don't have any new ideas on
> that point; they are benefitting from the
> experienced organizers' expertise, like car
> ralliers have done for decades.
>
> Mark B.


Mark,

Sorry, I misunderstood you comment. How is that working out?

Rich Smith

Gene,

Nobody needs to defend DooWops. It's already doing what everybody is asking. It is THE consumate grassroots Stage Rally.

Hmmmm.... in fact, I'm going to start another topic holding it up as the best example.

Rich Smith

Rich Smith Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gene,
>
> Nobody needs to defend DooWops. It's already doing
> what everybody is asking. It is THE consumate
> grassroots Stage Rally.
>
> Hmmmm.... in fact, I'm going to start another
> topic holding it up as the best example.

EXACTLY. Doo Wops proves that affordable grass-roots oriented rally can be done.

I think Bower's Rally Waste Virginia out East is the other example worth using as a model.
>
> Rich Smith
>
>

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Ray and Company have done an incredible job with Doo Wops, this just goes to prove it can be done... Which then bags the question what can we do so that this becomes the norm not the exception???

I will say this, one event that is affordable to enter gets exspensive if it's the only event that is. Buying safety gear etc. for one event does not ammortize out very well making one of anything exspensive!

It would be interesting to see what would happen if there was more events like this, or even more smaller single day events...

Gene, I have this to say about helping out, I do, not every event... I emailed M. Hurst about being a tech inspector (several times), never heard back... I will be out there again wearing different hats!

---

As always IMHO

SEAN TENNIS KF7JJR
SEATTLE, WASHINGTON
SAAB 99, SAAB 850
SAAB V4, SAAB 99T

SEANT Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ray and Company have done an incredible job with
> Doo Wops, this just goes to prove it can be
> done... Which then bags the question what can we
> do so that this becomes the norm not the
> exception???
>
> I will say this, one event that is affordable to
> enter gets exspensive if it's the only event that
> is. Buying safety gear etc. for one event does
> not ammortize out very well making one of anything
> exspensive!
>
> It would be interesting to see what would happen
> if there was more events like this, or even more
> smaller single day events...
>
> Gene, I have this to say about helping out, I do,
> not every event... I emailed M. Hurst about being
> a tech inspector (several times), never heard
> back... I will be out there again wearing
> different hats!
>
>
>
> As always IMHO
>
> SEAN TENNIS
> SEATTLE, WASHINGTON
> SAAB 99, SAAB 850


Sean, you are welcome to help at tech anytime, no license needed. Hurst has a SFI test that gets administered at nationals.

If we can get roads here again there will be some smaller one day events.

Anders, Mark, Michel, Richard, Alan and myself are all either RA or NRS organizers, rule makers or officials. We are or were recently competitors. We all get along, a couple of us hold positions with both organizations. We know the world isn't perfect. For me anyway, the barrage of insults and picks at the organizations I work for gets a bit much. I aplogize for "going off my meds"

heymagic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SEANT Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Ray and Company have done an incredible job
> with
> > Doo Wops, this just goes to prove it can be
> > done... Which then bags the question what
> can we
> > do so that this becomes the norm not the
> > exception???
> >
> > I will say this, one event that is affordable
> to
> > enter gets exspensive if it's the only event
> that
> > is. Buying safety gear etc. for one event
> does
> > not ammortize out very well making one of
> anything
> > exspensive!
> >
> > It would be interesting to see what would
> happen
> > if there was more events like this, or even
> more
> > smaller single day events...
> >
> > Gene, I have this to say about helping out, I
> do,
> > not every event... I emailed M. Hurst about
> being
> > a tech inspector (several times), never
> heard
> > back... I will be out there again wearing
> > different hats!
> >
> >
> >
> > As always IMHO
> >
> > SEAN TENNIS
> > SEATTLE, WASHINGTON
> > SAAB 99, SAAB 850
>
>
> Sean, you are welcome to help at tech anytime, no
> license needed. Hurst has a SFI test that gets
> administered at nationals.
>
> If we can get roads here again there will be some
> smaller one day events.
>
> Anders, Mark, Michel, Richard, Alan and myself are
> all either RA or NRS organizers, rule makers or
> officials. We are or were recently competitors. We
> all get along, a couple of us hold positions with
> both organizations. We know the world isn't
> perfect. For me anyway, the barrage of insults and
> picks at the organizations I work for gets a bit
> much. I aplogize for "going off my meds"
>
>
>
>
No need to apologize!

I believe the issue is more a matter of it can't be done and yet Ray & crew does it. I don't have any problem with either sanctioning body. I think that there is a tendency to try to over protect and require safety items that have not been proven in our sport...safety is a preception anyhow.

I also believe that we as rally community need to work with organizers and sanctioning bodies to figure out ways to cut cost, however there seems to be an issue with discussion and then someone starts waving a flag saying how great things are and calling those discussing community concerns discontent trouble makers that don't compete anyhow.

All we want to do is rally, it needs to be affordable, when it is then we will get more folks...

(Edit: early morning rush out the door...- )

---

As always IMHO

SEAN TENNIS KF7JJR
SEATTLE, WASHINGTON
SAAB 99, SAAB 850
SAAB V4, SAAB 99T



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/11/2008 07:26PM by SEANT.

SEANT Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Jeez Gene, off your meds? I was out of work and
> recovering from several (4)surgeries, hence one
> hand makes it tough, so does lack of funds...and
> your excuse, or are you just pissing and moaning!
>

Sean it was just a Flesh Wound!!

You could have made it.

Soooo Gene..... Why were YOU not competing?

I beat the bunch of 'em in my 32 year old Euro-Trash Sedan. Bwahahahahaha!!

---

JohnLane

Overkill is consistently more fun