What kind of cars
Posted by sauna rocks
Josh Wimpey Josh Wimpey Mod Moderator Location: VA Join Date: 12/27/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 649 Rally Car: Sneak the Golf |
Jay Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > Hmmm why do you hate plastic? Said the guy who was > thinking about replacing the rear side windows > with lexan It is ugly, its ugly, it scratches easy, it fogs badly....and its ugly I might consider sheet-metal over the rear side windows before doing plastic. ____________________________________________________________- One. Class -- 2WD www.quantumrallysport.com http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Quantum-Rally-Sport/281129179600?ref=nf |
sauna rocks jake himes Senior Moderator Location: top bench Join Date: 02/08/2006 Posts: 83 Rally Car: Rx7 (1st gen shell/2nd gen goodies), Pretty soon a bitchin' Capri |
Josh Wimpey Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > Right now, just about any low to moderate spec > car, when well driven, can win 2wd at most events. > Sure, there are some fast events where you need > 200+hp to be competitive but I think most events > could be won in my golf...and its not very trick > at all. I don't know if I completely agree with you on the here and now part. I also don't know your car that well. However, I really feel that by WV there will be more MaxAttack! entries, say 20-25, and with that number rising there are higher chances of an excellent driver arriving with a well done car. Since we are talking about MaxAttack! events we need to acknowledge the momentum that the program has. WV will draw nearly all the fast teams from east of the Mississippi and a few from Canada as well. I feel that with Utecht in the Mustang, Shepard in the SRT4, Silas Himes in my RX7, Sarasin in the supercharged focus, Burmeister in the Mazdaspeed3, Kendall in the SRT4, Cizmas in his Golf, and a few hot Hondas out of Quebec that taking a low to moderate spec car to 1st place would be a very tall order. When LSPR rolls around it's only going to be tougher. > > > If someone offered me $25,000 to build a new car > or $10,000 to make improvements to my golf, I > would keep the golf almost as is, add a carbon > hood and hatch, install Autronic injection, bump > the compression up to 12:1 (aim for ~160whp) and > pocket the change for driving school and entering > more events.... That's the point of this thread. Look at the limitations of your Golf just like we all have to look at the limitations of any vehicle any of us chooses. Do you have a sold chassis with lots of travel? Can you afford 15" tires? Can you get great rally suspension? (for driving at MaxAttack!) How about a clutch type diff Can you get a gearset that goes roughly 2.4 to 1 and a final drive somewhere between 4.2 and 5.? What about steering and brakes? Is your motor a limiting factor? Can you get around 220 hp? I know some of these questions are answered "yes" for a Golf. Think about where your limiting factors are. All cars have them. How tough are they to solve? Soon the MaxAttack Series will be seeing very talented drivers driving cars that will have excellent performance in all these areas. > > Now, if someone offered $100,000+, that is a > different story, I would purchase a used low-spec > super1600 car (VW Polo???) and have it shipped > over here. > > > > Edited 1 times. Last edit at Apr 19, 2007 by Josh > Wimpey. |
Lurch Eric Burmeister Super Moderator Location: Michigan Join Date: 02/14/2006 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 307 Rally Car: Mazdaspeed3 and Mazda Protege |
I've had very good luck with plastic windows on the rear of my cars.
You need to get a formed one for the backlight, and precurved works better for the sides. Percy's Speedglass can make you a rear window from stock glass. You wouldn't know my cars have plastic backlights or rear side windows unless you rapped on them with your hand. Eric Lurch Eric Burmeister The west coast...of Michigan |
Josh Wimpey Josh Wimpey Mod Moderator Location: VA Join Date: 12/27/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 649 Rally Car: Sneak the Golf |
Lurch Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > I've had very good luck with plastic windows on > the rear of my cars. > > You need to get a formed one for the backlight, > and precurved works better for the sides. > > Percy's Speedglass can make you a rear window from > stock glass. > I had never seen those before. Looks like that solves most of my complaints about plastic windows. How is the fogging? Can they be tinted? Can I assume that replacing the 3 rear windows for ~$700 will save ~25lbs? That is as good a weight savings as a really nice carbon hood...For less money. Either way, I will have to convince someone else to pay for it before it will happen. At least the windows could be done 1 at a time--but I'd hate to pay shipping twice... ____________________________________________________________- One. Class -- 2WD www.quantumrallysport.com http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Quantum-Rally-Sport/281129179600?ref=nf |
Josh Wimpey Josh Wimpey Mod Moderator Location: VA Join Date: 12/27/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 649 Rally Car: Sneak the Golf |
sauna rocks Wrote:
> I don't know if I completely agree with you on the > here and now part. I also don't know your car > that well. However, I really feel that by WV > there will be more MaxAttack! entries, say 20-25, > and with that number rising there are higher > chances of an excellent driver arriving with a > well done car. > > Since we are talking about MaxAttack! events we > need to acknowledge the momentum that the program > has. WV will draw nearly all the fast teams from > east of the Mississippi and a few from Canada as > well. I feel that with Utecht in the Mustang, > Shepard in the SRT4, Silas Himes in my RX7, > Sarasin in the supercharged focus, Burmeister in > the Mazdaspeed3, Kendall in the SRT4, Cizmas in > his Golf, and a few hot Hondas out of Quebec that > taking a low to moderate spec car to 1st place > would be a very tall order. When LSPR rolls > around it's only going to be tougher. > Soon the MaxAttack Series will be seeing very > talented drivers driving cars that will have > excellent performance in all these areas. > Jake, I agree that the level of 2wd car preparation is likely to increase and the depth of the talent pool that enters events will also increase. We haven't been racing very much or very long so it is difficult to tell where we stand in the greater speed-of-things. Some general musings... What pace (% of top 4wd team's pace) do you think will be required to run at the top of the 2wd field at MaxAttack events? 90% of Pastrana's pace? 90% of Seamus' pace? 90% of MJ's pace? What about on tarmac? Does the minimum required pace-gap get smaller or larger? It would be interesting to see what pace has been required historically in the US to win 2wd. Digging through the results could be tedious. It would be neat to plot the competitiveness of 2wd over time (i.e. there might be dips and spurts of fast 2wd activity...You might be able to demonstrate just how much faster and more exciting the MaxAttack! program has made 2wd after the next couple of events....For example: MaxAttack has increased the required pace to win from 85% of Pastrana\Pinker pace to 93% of Pastrana\Pinker pace) If anyone feels like compiling the data, I would love to play with it... ____________________________________________________________- One. Class -- 2WD www.quantumrallysport.com http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Quantum-Rally-Sport/281129179600?ref=nf |
John Hruska John Hruska Mod Moderator Location: P.O.R. Join Date: 10/24/2006 Age: Settling Down Posts: 17 Rally Car: '88 Golf GTI, Merkur soon |
Josh Wimpey Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > How is the fogging? > Can they be tinted? > > Can I assume that replacing the 3 rear windows for > ~$700 will save ~25lbs? > That is as good a weight savings as a really nice > carbon hood...For less money. I got my 2 rear quater windows cut and fitted for about $50 from the local body shop. They dont fog, and I'm sure you can tint them (its just a big sticker) |
Lurch Eric Burmeister Super Moderator Location: Michigan Join Date: 02/14/2006 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 307 Rally Car: Mazdaspeed3 and Mazda Protege |
Buy the pretinted, pre curved stuff from Shields for the sides. Very durable. Tint is IN the plastic, no film to come off.
On the rear of the car, I don't worry about fogging so much. They do have an anti fog material. Don't know how well it does or doesn't work. www.racingshields.com Lurch Eric Burmeister The west coast...of Michigan |
Lurch Eric Burmeister Super Moderator Location: Michigan Join Date: 02/14/2006 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 307 Rally Car: Mazdaspeed3 and Mazda Protege |
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derek Derek Bottles Infallible Moderator Location: Lopez Island/ Seattle WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 853 Rally Car: Past: 323, RX2, GTI. Next up M3 ? |
For a point of ref, I think I was driving 88% to 93% as fast as Stig/Travis/Pat at Oregon Trail a few years back till we ran out of electrons on stage 13.
At that rally that pace was plenty to be leading all 2wd cars by 7 min or so when we DNF'ed, however Mr. Stow was a lot closer till he DNF'ed around stage 10, like only 45 to 75 seconds down. Jake makes very good point, good drivers in bad cars will crush bad drivers in good cars however as soon as a good driver shows up in a good car... well it is all over for the driver in the bad car. I expect my old Golf will make the next two MaxAtack events... I was looking at adds for 300Whp 2400 Lbs cars yesterday for the day when I return to rally, no golf will have a payer of staying with me then, unless it snows or is driven by Nicols. On tarmac MaxAtack car should win over all - they can have a lot more power then a 34mm AWD car and be lighter. In the long run reality always wins. |
Tom B Tom B Mega Moderator Location: Douche Canoe, WA Join Date: 02/27/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 780 Rally Car: VW Golf |
We were 88-90% of Pinker/Block/Faust on day 3 at OT. Had we been able to run at speed for the entire event it would've been interesting for max attack.
I think a well built group 5 car with tons of tires would take open cars on pavement somewhat easily, and could be a national winner at the right gravel event. -Tom DemonRallyTeam | Fine Tuning | CTS Turbo & RP Turbos | RalleyTuned | JRM | Meister Autowerks Spitfire EFI | Product Apparel | JVAB Imports | NLS | AP Tuning | USRT Add us on Facebook | Next Event: 2013 Olympus Rally June 22-23 Olympia, WA |
john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Mod Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Tom B Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > We were 88-90% of Pinker/Block/Faust on day 3 at > OT. Had we been able to run at speed for the > entire event it would've been interesting for max > attack. > > I think a well built group 5 car with tons of > tires would take open cars on pavement somewhat > easily, and could be a national winner at the > right gravel event. I have a couple of spare Xratties just waiting to be made into nice Gp5 cars, $400 is cheap, 2300 with the nice turbo pulls like a bear (the whole reason I started pushing Xratties and Volvo 240 turbos is when I drove a stocker, with open diff and street tires, and shitty suspension on gravel some time back it hit me that I could drive that stocker faster on normal stages than my light, strong, 175bhp , 5.45 geared, close ratio box equipped Saab) And if a guys is smart and doesn't go crazy on the motor thinking that he "needs" 300 bhp, but works on delivery and ease of driving, then the need for stacks of tires goes down too. Its almost counter intuitive be a big torquey turbo motor is all round "gooder" at what we need and oddly enough since the early 80s, that's what seems to work to win, when they're allowed. > > Dr. Dick | Fine Tuning | demonrally John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
hoche Michel Hoche-Mong Infallible Moderator Location: Campbell, CA Join Date: 02/28/2006 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 1,156 Rally Car: Golf, Golf, RX-3 |
Ok, I'm in the car on the way down to do scoring at Rim and I have nothing better to do, so I thought I'd chunk some numbers.
Oregon Trail 2005, only counting Saturday and Sunday, Derek ran 88%, 91%, 87%, 85%, 88%, 89% vs Stig. (There were more stages but Derek never made it past SS12). He was about a single percentage point higher against the mere mortal top drivers. Tom last weekend was all over the place on Saturday: 85%, 72%, 74%, 86%, 86% vs Pinker. (I threw out SS7). Sunday he kicked it up a notch: 89%, 90%, 89%, 89%. Havas ran 84%, 86%, 85%, 89%, 88%, 89% on Saturday, and 88%, 89%, 88%, 90% on Sunday. Kendall was in the same ballpark. Also, the CRS tracks speed factors based on a percentage, not like R/A does. So it's pretty easy to see what your relative speed is. For instance, in my Golf with its old 100Hp engine, I ran at 84% of the pace. I haven't run a CRS event with my new engine, but most of the faster 2WD driver are clumped around the 84-87 range. The two fastest 2WD drivers in the region, Tim Moser and Jim Pierce, are both at 89%. So, this is looking like a consistent speed of about 88-89% would be enough to do it. However, there really are too few data points to really say for certain. Self-righteous douche canoe |
Tom B Tom B Mega Moderator Location: Douche Canoe, WA Join Date: 02/27/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 780 Rally Car: VW Golf |
On Saturday we started by running used tires (something to blame for the off, but I'm not going to blame my poor driving on tires), and ended up running them for the rest of the day, we also blew the right front strut by the end of saturday. There is also a bunch of other stuff like passing cars and getting a nominal stage time due to a red cross, but I digress.
On Sunday we started with fresh tires and by the end of the last stage they were wearing. I think someone with a solid budget for tires can own all of us easily. and yes that is in a rabbit...with moderately decent suspension (cut down springs and OLD struts). bottom line: effort teamwork and luck, with a little bit of money splashed in there -Tom DemonRallyTeam | Fine Tuning | CTS Turbo & RP Turbos | RalleyTuned | JRM | Meister Autowerks Spitfire EFI | Product Apparel | JVAB Imports | NLS | AP Tuning | USRT Add us on Facebook | Next Event: 2013 Olympus Rally June 22-23 Olympia, WA |
sauna rocks jake himes Senior Moderator Location: top bench Join Date: 02/08/2006 Posts: 83 Rally Car: Rx7 (1st gen shell/2nd gen goodies), Pretty soon a bitchin' Capri |
Tom B Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > We were 88-90% of Pinker/Block/Faust on day 3 at > OT. Had we been able to run at speed for the > entire event it would've been interesting for max > attack. > > I think a well built group 5 car with tons of > tires would take open cars on pavement somewhat > easily, and could be a national winner at the > right gravel event. > > Dr. Dick | Fine Tuning | demonrally Take a good look at Burmeister's Mazdaspeed3 next time you get a chance. Eric has basically invented this car, blazing a trail for others to follow if they choose. When this car is at it's peak it will be a top 5 OA car. If things continue to go well for Eric this year he could be within 5 seconds of winning Delaware at LSPR |
derek Derek Bottles Infallible Moderator Location: Lopez Island/ Seattle WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 853 Rally Car: Past: 323, RX2, GTI. Next up M3 ? |
Oh I am thinking 300hp with very wide band power for sure not something that only makes it between 7200 and 7250 RPM...
If only XR's were not so fucking butt ugly. I found tires to be a huge deal, much slower when on the wrong tire. I know that I have a lot to learn about how to drive a rally car fast still, the golf was a lot better then most of the other cars, not so much me. I think there is a lot of room for improvement from the % Tom, myself and the CRS people have been doing. In the long run reality always wins. |
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