bknblk2 Tony Wood Senior Moderator Location: Wichita Join Date: 02/02/2009 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 181 Rally Car: 83 Citation "Oskar" |
I understand where your mind is at, but it's far too restrictive. There just aren't enough people in this country dedicated to the point of sourcing 30-40 year old unobtainium to then go risk said parts out in the woods. It must stay more open, anyone running the class looks over each others cars and gives the thumbs up or down. In the Mustang example, Shelby GT350's have been rallied, probably with 400 ish HP. So It's ok with you if I put a $$,$$$ R code motor in it as long as it has a "proper" datestamp but a 200HP 25 year old (that's 1989) 5.0 or heaven forbid a Mod motor is no good in your book?
None of "our" cars are going to set the world on fire, win rallies. Why not let more people into our odd clubhouse, not slam the door because they have a terraphone clubman or Dmacks.... |
bttmotorsport Jari Hamalainen Senior Moderator Location: Cape Coral, FL Join Date: 12/12/2010 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 119 Rally Car: Opel Monza, Chevy Monza to be finished 2012, BMW 318 iS |
If You consider for example FIA Historic European Championship as "real" Historic, documented competition history has not been required for in about 10 years anymore. but cars must be built according the period rulebook + homologation form, excpect for safety gear. And they must have FIA Technical passport which can be obtained after inspection of the car. |
heymagic Banned Professional Moderator Location: La la land Join Date: 01/25/2006 Age: Fossilized Posts: 3,740 Rally Car: Not a Volvo |
There will be a point (or is now) where old, legitmate rally cars are all gone. This is not an easy life for a car. I don't have a problem with replicas because of that . I do have a problem (although very small) when someone decides to build a car for a class with no participation and then call out the world over it. If YOU want a historic class, then YOU need to do it. Get the group together, elect a chairman, get things going. It is laid out in the rule book and has been for years. The problem lies with the lack of competitors. CRS does it with their specific classes. YOU need to make the class happen and when or if that gets there and is not recognized then you have a legitimate bitch. As I mentioned we have offered it out here several times when there were enough cars to justify it and still no takers. They all wanted to run G2.
The other problem is the rolling date allowing relatively modern cars into the mix and then...what about the Quattro and GTX cars? Are we talking H2 and H5 as well as H0 or H PGT? Are you willing to be beaten about the head and shoulders by a well prepared historic AWD turbo car? |
AnthonyLatham Tony Latham Godlike Moderator Location: Richmond, BC, Canada Join Date: 03/13/2008 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 102 Rally Car: 2015 Subaru WRX |
Gene is totally right when he says all the competitors involved NEED to to get together, elect or designate a Chairperson and REPRESENT to the appropriate board. Funnily enough there are a few of us Canadians working on a historic class structure. Rally West and RPM have had Group D (Dinosaur) for some time now (Thank you Peter Hill!) and the timing seemed right for a class revision and push for national status. The new class is call Historic. We have decided to move to a fixed cutoff date for the Rallywest Historic Championship. The series will be for cars 1987 or older, 2wd with no turbos. While the XR4Tis and Turbo Volvos wouldn't qualify, the AE86 Toyota Corolla GT-S and Mk 2 VW Golfs would. Older Saabs (Like Garth Ankeny and Paul Westwick's), Porsche 911s and Ford Cortinas would be welcomed home like brothers. LSDs are allowed but sequential shifters are not. Further changes might be considered later but the consensus is that we want to see how many entries show up in 2013 first. It will be up to the class competitors to comment and lobby for any further rule changes. Once the full class regulations have been posted online I wiil post a link here and on ss.com. Regards, Tony 2015 Subaru WRX Traded the Audi for the above Sold the 1993 Honda Civic EG w/B16A Conversion to the Raw Racing boys 6 bicycles because, you know, global warming and all |
Anders Green Anders Green Mega Moderator Location: Raleigh, NC Join Date: 03/30/2006 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 1,478 Rally Car: Parked |
Write the rules for historic class (which will need to meet modern safety regs). Get four of your buddies to agree to them. Get five paid entries of compliant cars. I will announce the class the same day. Looking forward to some old Saabs, MGBs, and Minis! Anders Grassroots rally. It's what I think about. |
AnthonyLatham Tony Latham Godlike Moderator Location: Richmond, BC, Canada Join Date: 03/13/2008 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 102 Rally Car: 2015 Subaru WRX |
2015 Subaru WRX Traded the Audi for the above Sold the 1993 Honda Civic EG w/B16A Conversion to the Raw Racing boys 6 bicycles because, you know, global warming and all |
modernbeat Jason McDaniel Infallible Moderator Location: Dallas, TX Join Date: 12/14/2007 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 401 Rally Car: 1963 SAAB Historic, 1995 Impreza Open Light totaled at WRC Mexico, 2005 STi Pikes Peak winner |
Anders, hold a rally closer to Texas and I will. FWIW we are thinking about tweeking some things on the car and sending Brianne to Rally West Virginia with it.
To everyone else, I'm not debating the merit of the class or the rules the class should or should not run under. RA already has a loose ruleset to run these types of cars under. And it's already in the rulebook. Why isn't it offered as a class at RA events? People keep saying that nobody shows up for the class, but at the same time they can't because the class is never offered. And many of the potential entries are a hell of a lot more subtle than the tiny SAAB. And on the Shelby GT thing, the 5.0 is a shade of grey to me. If it's dressed halfway period, including a carb, I'd give it the thumbs up. But my example of a turbo Duratec would get the thumbs down from me. But if the majority of the other Historic Class participants said yes to it staying in H rather than G5, I'd be happy to go along with it. Jason McDaniel |
hoche Michel Hoche-Mong Junior Moderator Location: Campbell, CA Join Date: 02/28/2006 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 1,156 Rally Car: Golf, Golf, RX-3 |
Jason, if it's not offered as a class at your local RA events and you want to run Historic, make a fuss and point out that section of the rulebook. The old SCCA guys are clearly wrong and it's a separate class, not an adjunct.
The immediate problem you'll face is getting someone to do something about it. Keep in mind that organizers have 50 bazillion things on their minds and tracking and making trophies for an extra class is just another set of things to do. Almost every organizer I know of would go out of their way to do it if there's a reason to, but they're not going to do it to satisfy the whims of one single competitor. You need mass support; i.e regular proof of multiple entries. Or just get some famous model to drive the car and toss a lot of publicity and money at the National Series. That should work too. Self-righteous douche canoe |
HiTempguy Banned Ultra Moderator Location: Red Deer, Alberta Join Date: 09/13/2011 Posts: 717 Rally Car: 2002 Subaru WRX STi |
What's this "we" business? I just received the email today, and RallyWest hasn't even discussed it yet. Not that I see anything wrong with whats currently been presented, but that's not just my singular call. |
AnthonyLatham Tony Latham Godlike Moderator Location: Richmond, BC, Canada Join Date: 03/13/2008 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 102 Rally Car: 2015 Subaru WRX |
Gah, I should say that the RPM board had voted to switch from Group D to Historic class rules and my HOPE is that Rallywest will do that same. My apologies - I should not have presented this as a done deal. Best regards, Tony 2015 Subaru WRX Traded the Audi for the above Sold the 1993 Honda Civic EG w/B16A Conversion to the Raw Racing boys 6 bicycles because, you know, global warming and all |
HiTempguy Banned Ultra Moderator Location: Red Deer, Alberta Join Date: 09/13/2011 Posts: 717 Rally Car: 2002 Subaru WRX STi |
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Morison Banned Senior Moderator Location: Calgary, AB Join Date: 03/27/2009 Age: Ancient Posts: 1,798 Rally Car: (ex)86 RX-7(built), (ex)2.5RS (bought) |
Hey Tony,
I'm curious about what the differences will be between this new Historic class and what GrD is right now. You've mentioned a fixed cut-off of 1987 as one difference, but what else needed changing? Are the rules being adopted the rules Scott Trinder put forward to the CARS Board? (not being argumentative, just asking)
First Rally: 2001 Driver (7), Co-Driver (44) Drivers (16) Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4) Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0) Last Updated, January 4, 2015
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heymagic Banned Professional Moderator Location: La la land Join Date: 01/25/2006 Age: Fossilized Posts: 3,740 Rally Car: Not a Volvo |
Still looking at the RA rules and it appears Historic is not a regional class so national entry only. It isn't listed under the RA national championships awards. I'm guessing you get Historic points but they count for ??? Rules still mention the elected Historic chairperson and no procedure. I'd guess it must be a position elected by the Historic competitors , probably needn't be a competitor but should be someone with a fair bit of vehicle knowledge about the time period and performance specs of the cars.
So at the end of the day I'm going to guess it is more of a potential thing and is entirely up to the competitors to make it work. More of a thing RA will allow and recognise, as would NRS, IF there was an actual reason to. Organize the competitors into a cohesive group and RA has the provision to make it happen. Seems fair. But...we need to do away with the Rally truck class, haven't seen one in years. GpN is gone as is GpA. P class needs to be done away with also, even though there are a few of those, most are just old beaters because people don't want to spend any money on performance and get the gold star for finishing well in an under subsrcibed class. Dead last and first in class is still dead last in my book. |
12xalt "oh! you're the one!" Professional Moderator Location: Hazel Dell, WA Join Date: 02/22/2008 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 1,390 Rally Car: 1974 Dodge Colt, under construction |
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john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Mega Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Ah I see something materializing in front of my eyes. Its a vison!
This Made from 1984 Dropped into this: Or this Or even one of the "alleged 510s" Hmmmmmmmmm John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |