U.S rally: How's it going guys?
Posted by Jens
Banned Professional Moderator Location: Calgary, AB Join Date: 03/27/2009 Age: Ancient Posts: 1,798 Rally Car: (ex)86 RX-7(built), (ex)2.5RS (bought) |
Oooooo... I see what you did there 
Except that Derek said he paid $250 entry to doowops in 1988 so we know the $100 isn't the right starting point. But even if entry fees were $100 in the late 70s and early 80s, that would have been a 250% increase in 8 years. over 30% increase per year, and regional entry fees of over $1000 today. You so love to misrepresent me and what I say. What I said wasI think one of the reasons people think entry fees are too high is people keep telling them they are. People who come from some other automotive motorsports regularly comment about how relatively cheap rally is, but also complain about the logistical nightmare associated with the sport. But beyond that, you have to appreciate that the cost of entry isn't going up just to line some people's pockets. As Gene has pointed out, the cost of putting on events isn't doing anything but increasing and surely you know few, if any, organisers are holding rally events for personal profit. (certainly not the case in Canada.) First Rally: 2001 Driver (7), Co-Driver (44) Drivers (16) Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4) Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0) Last Updated, January 4, 2015 
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John Vanlandingham Elite Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
He said---therefore it must be.
I said I was paying 100 in the early '90s, but you reflexively ignore that and choose to believe what was then a mere teenager's memory. John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
Banned Professional Moderator Location: Calgary, AB Join Date: 03/27/2009 Age: Ancient Posts: 1,798 Rally Car: (ex)86 RX-7(built), (ex)2.5RS (bought) |
Yah, something that 20+ years in journalism has taught me.
Source 1 "I paid $100 entry fees in the early 90s" Source 2 "I paid $250 entry to Doo Wops in 1988" Source 2 is inherently more credible because it references a specific fee for a specific event in a specific year. Throw in Source 3 "We used to have sub $100 regional or divisional events out here and $300 or less nationals back in the 80s." Together, that suggests $100 regionals in the 90s likely wasn't the case and that Source 1's information is the 'outlier' and would need more substantiation. Most importantly, all of the source material is hearsay and any documentation from the day would be considered authoritative. I've been asking around for supps from the 70s, 80s and 90s out of curiosity. But then, that's all obvious boring stuff... First Rally: 2001 Driver (7), Co-Driver (44) Drivers (16) Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4) Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0) Last Updated, January 4, 2015
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John Vanlandingham Elite Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Banned Professional Moderator Location: Calgary, AB Join Date: 03/27/2009 Age: Ancient Posts: 1,798 Rally Car: (ex)86 RX-7(built), (ex)2.5RS (bought) |
But this isn't all about you. (you often make the mistake that it is) We're talking about average entry fees and frankly your statements aren't matching up with what other people are saying. Derek also said: Now, even the simplest of minds can see through the typo to see that he meant to say that 'Doo Wops was always a lower cost rally than Oregon Trail...' So... you insist Doo Wops was higher priced than any other divisional, by far, and Derek says it was always lower. Certainly in more recent years the event prided itself on keeping costs low, so when did that change. But when you say "National Pacific Forest whatever the fuck it was...", showing you don't exactly remember the name of the event, do you really think you come across as authoritative on the price? Beyond that:
OK, there's the $100 entry figure from 1988 - for each of two one-day regionals. So, the comparison number for today would be either the $200 to the price of all regionals ($750) or $100 to the price of a single day entry ($450.) So, even before adjusting for inflation, which really isn't being honest about the costs, you are between 275% and 350% increase. When you do account for inflation, that $100 in 1988 would equal 197.46 in today's dollars. So in 'buying power' terms, it's closer to a 127% increase. But it's not, even by your numbers. YOU said $200 for both divisionals, so compare right price to the right price. When you do that, there is still a big question of 'why have entries more than doubled in cost, after accounting for inflation.' Mostly because more often than not, CEOs don't make the majority of their incomes in salary but rather in bonuses or options. On another note: Are you up to the challenge of carrying on discussions that don't end up in personal attacks and insults? First Rally: 2001 Driver (7), Co-Driver (44) Drivers (16) Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4) Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0) Last Updated, January 4, 2015
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Banned Godlike Moderator Location: La la land Join Date: 01/25/2006 Age: Fossilized Posts: 3,740 Rally Car: Not a Volvo |
Banned Professional Moderator Location: Calgary, AB Join Date: 03/27/2009 Age: Ancient Posts: 1,798 Rally Car: (ex)86 RX-7(built), (ex)2.5RS (bought) |
[chevy]Gene, you ignorant slut![/chase] Stop spreading rumorus and lies like that. The all knowing, all seeing, all remembering John John John John Van Van Van Van landingham ham ham ham has decreed otherwise. (Yah, I know Vanlandingham is a single word, it's called poetic license)
[/single malt] First Rally: 2001 Driver (7), Co-Driver (44) Drivers (16) Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4) Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0) Last Updated, January 4, 2015
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/17/2013 04:29AM by Morison. |
John Vanlandingham Elite Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Banned Professional Moderator Location: Calgary, AB Join Date: 03/27/2009 Age: Ancient Posts: 1,798 Rally Car: (ex)86 RX-7(built), (ex)2.5RS (bought) |
Since you seem to have missed where I, perhaps too quietly, acknowledged your $100 divisional entry fee and worked with that number. So, here it is again:
An analogy would be saying that in the '80s I could buy a beer for $1 but today a case of 12 costs me $20. That's a 2000% increase! (Let's ignore that it's actually a 1900% increase) Not so. The topic is 'U.S rally: How's it going guys?' As a part of that, someone pointed out that 'today' the regional entry fees are being kept down because of the higher National entry fees being charged. Your response was to ask "...why have regional entry fees gone up 800% in this century??[/quote] Using the numbers you provide, the answer is clear that 'divisional entry fees' haven't risen by anywhere near 800% when you look at the raw numbers. Of course taking that position plays to your need to be seen as the lone champion of the clubbie's best interests but, frankly, does nothing but build animosity between newbies, organizers and sanctioning bodies. It does more harm than good for the sport. Of course we are all guilty, from time to time, of making off-the-cuff remarks that are based in sentiment, not fact, that are quickly shown to be wrong. I know I've done it and, like most civilized people, I'm quick to admit it and stand corrected. There was an easy way out of this...
First Rally: 2001 Driver (7), Co-Driver (44) Drivers (16) Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4) Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0) Last Updated, January 4, 2015
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John Vanlandingham Elite Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Banned Professional Moderator Location: Calgary, AB Join Date: 03/27/2009 Age: Ancient Posts: 1,798 Rally Car: (ex)86 RX-7(built), (ex)2.5RS (bought) |
So is it just you refuse to admit you were wrong or do you actually not believe you can be wrong?
http://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/search.php?1,search=I+was+wrong,author=john+vanlandingham,page=1,match_type=PHRASE,match_dates=30,match_forum=ALL,match_threads=0 First Rally: 2001 Driver (7), Co-Driver (44) Drivers (16) Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4) Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0) Last Updated, January 4, 2015
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Banned Godlike Moderator Location: La la land Join Date: 01/25/2006 Age: Fossilized Posts: 3,740 Rally Car: Not a Volvo |
Albert Kun Mod Moderator Location: SF Ca. Join Date: 01/07/2008 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 1,732 Rally Car: volvo 242 |
Jens Infallible Moderator Join Date: 01/25/2006 Posts: 544 |
Banned Professional Moderator Location: Calgary, AB Join Date: 03/27/2009 Age: Ancient Posts: 1,798 Rally Car: (ex)86 RX-7(built), (ex)2.5RS (bought) |
Hell, I'm authoring half the lines (most of the family friendly ones at that) so there should be a cut coming my way as well. FWIW I'd pledge my royalties to reducing entry fees at regional events in Western Canada... First Rally: 2001 Driver (7), Co-Driver (44) Drivers (16) Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4) Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0) Last Updated, January 4, 2015
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