U.S rally: How's it going guys?

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Morison
So is it just you refuse to admit you were wrong or do you actually not believe you can be wrong?

http://www.rallyanarchy.com/phorum/search.php?1,search=I+was+wrong,author=john+vanlandingham,page=1,match_type=PHRASE,match_dates=30,match_forum=ALL,match_threads=0

Only thing I refuse to do is waste time with complete cunts, such as YOU.

It is astounding that you are allowed to drive a car....I can see you boring motors to death explaining why green means go and red means stop..

You must have a very boring life that you have this compulsion to correct and explain every single word regardless of how trivial it is..

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

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john vanlandingham
Only thing I refuse to do is waste time with complete cunts, such as YOU.

Absolutely hilarious considering you've spent the time to write a handful of completely wasteful posts in this thread that are aimed a doing nothing more than making me look bad (and doing nothing but making you look bad.)

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john vanlandingham
you have this compulsion to correct and explain every single word regardless of how trivial it is..

Oh the hyperbole...

Truth is, you've wasted a bunch of both of our time because you can't man-up and admit you misspoke about rate of increase for regional events. What could have ensued was a discussion about the entry cost to Rally, the additional costs imposed by 'federations' and landowners and how other things have changed.

There are tons of examples of increasing costs in the sport, most of which are driven by the teams themselves. As an example, in the mere dozen years I've been around the sport I've seen regional events go from half the teams driving the rally car to the event and the other half having open trailers to almost everyone towing and half the teams having enclosed trailers. Personally, I think that's a bad thing for the sport, even though I love having an enclosed trailer - or motorhome - at service.

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First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

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john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

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Olympus has been reclaimed! Now t.v. needs more rally coverage in general! Watch w.r.c. on mavtv...ratings will keep it airing.

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derek
Seattle Median Household income grew from 41,500 in 1990 to 91,000 in 2010 or

$41,500(X^20) = $91,000 IE wages grew at 3.1%/year over that time

This is completely meaningless though, as how "wealthy" you are is not derived simply from how much money you make. The biggest purchase you will ever make in your life (typically) is a home. That HAS to be factored into thinking about how inflation/wages/money earned and costs of living affect rallyists.

For instance, in Alberta, a starter family home (1200sq ft upper level, non-developed basement, no attached or detatched garage, 2 beds, office, living room, kitchen/dining area) is essentially $300k and the lot has 3 feet of space on each side of the house and probably not enough room to build a detached garage later unless you want to have no back yard at all. Doesn't matter if you are in a big or small city or even the smaller towns anymore, it's $300k. Lots of older houses are complete garbage (especially due to the climate we have to deal with up here, it's hard on shit).

Lets look at condos/townhouses: for an ok one back in the 80's, my parents paid less than $60k (it was about a decade old). My father, working in a comparable industry to myself, was earning $45k per year with practically no education, and my mom was earning ~$10/h doing HR work.

Now, condos are $150k (unless you live in the ghetto/get a complete shithole of one that is 40 years old). Getting an education and working hard got me $45k per year out of school... huh. I may have been able to have landed a job for up to $60k per year, but very unlikely unless I was doing field work all the time/always away from home. So, the price of housing has practically tripled in this province (doubled since ~2002 alone) but wages have not even remotely followed suit. And I don't even feel bad for myself ( :p ), what would be a nightmare would be if I was a single female. They just don't get paid the same/have the same job opportunities it seems.

So I dunno. Gas is starting to get stupid again price-wise, that has certainly added to costs. And labour is ridiculously expensive (see $3k to do a Subaru cage ).

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HiTempguy
Lets look at condos/townhouses: for an ok one back in the 80's, my parents paid less than $60k (it was about a decade old).
Now, condos are $150k

So let me see if I have this right.
[VanlandingMath]
One condo cost $60,000 in 1980
Two condos would cost me $300,000 today
So, the cost of owning a condo has gone up by 300K/60k = 500% increase in condo prices in this century!!
[/VanlandingMath]

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First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

So...to answer your question Senor Jens... Same Ol', Same Ol'.... Rally on!

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Owner, Driver, Head Mechanic, and Janitor at Tower City Race Team, headquartered near L'Anse. Michigan.
Driver / CoDriver in Rally America, NASARallySport, ARA, AMS, UPMDA, Champ Off Road

https://www.facebook.com/TowerCityRaceTeam/
https://www.instagram.com/towercityraceteam/

Quote
HiTempguy
For instance, in Alberta, a starter family home (1200sq ft upper level, non-developed basement, no attached or detatched garage, 2 beds, office, living room, kitchen/dining area) is essentially $300k and the lot has 3 feet of space on each side of the house and probably not enough room to build a detached garage later unless you want to have no back yard at all. Doesn't matter if you are in a big or small city or even the smaller towns anymore, it's $300k. Lots of older houses are complete garbage (especially due to the climate we have to deal with up here, it's hard on shit).

Lets look at condos/townhouses: for an ok one back in the 80's, my parents paid less than $60k (it was about a decade old). My father, working in a comparable industry to myself, was earning $45k per year with practically no education, and my mom was earning ~$10/h doing HR work.

Now, condos are $150k (unless you live in the ghetto/get a complete shithole of one that is 40 years old). Getting an education and working hard got me $45k per year out of school... huh. I may have been able to have landed a job for up to $60k per year, but very unlikely unless I was doing field work all the time/always away from home. So, the price of housing has practically tripled in this province (doubled since ~2002 alone) but wages have not even remotely followed suit. And I don't even feel bad for myself ( :p ), what would be a nightmare would be if I was a single female. They just don't get paid the same/have the same job opportunities it seems.

You're on the right line of thinking there Adam, but your anecdotal example is not statistically meaningful.
US median income
2011 - 50,054 (+18.5% from 2001)
2001 - 42,228 (+40% from 1991)
1991 - 30,126 (+58% from 1981)
1981 - 19,074

US median housing prices
2010 - $221,800 (+31%)
2000 - $169,000 (+38%)
1990 - $122,900 (+90%)
1980 - $64,600

Percentage of income (median/housing)
2010 - 23%
2000 - 25%
1990 - 25%
1980 - 30%

Now places like Calgary or my hometown of Casper, WY are going to be hugely outside of that trend as the oil and gas industry drives huge swings in both directions. Casper can't find people to work fast food for $15 an hour. Oil and gas royalties have created a situation where the state will pay for every graduate to go to college, few do since most can make $40-80k right out of high school. The highest earning member of my family dropped out of high school junior year and went to work in the oil field.
$45k per year right out of school. Sounds familiar, I was 44545 annual right out of undergrad. Only took me a few months of working to decide that wasn't enough and was in grad school working on my Master's by the following school year. Finished degree requirements last night, picking up diploma later this week.

If you really want to look for something to blame, look at entertainment and status. Individual cell phone bills over $100, newest IPhone each month, satellite TV, cable internet, and etc. Big new trucks, boats, ATVs, fifth wheels, etc. People choose where to spend their money. The idea of individual wealth astounds most people. We were talking to this actuary at a wedding last month and she was asking about how much rally was. She was appalled at the amount of money is spent on it. We then asked her about car payments and housing costs and such. She was absolutely amazed when Steve told her his mortgage is $350 per month and he has no car payments and his total bills were under $500 per month.

But, to answer the original question, "US Rally, How's it going guys?", I'd say it's trucking along. I don't see anything that is really challenging the status quo. Most newcomers are looking to be stars and want to rally a Subaru, just like it was 10 years ago. The ones that can afford this do so and rally for a few years then will disappear. The ones that can't will do a few rallies maybe and then disappear. The usual long term guys are still around and a few disappear each year due to age, health, etc. and a few new ones appear though it's only time that will tell how long they stick around.

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Grant Hughes

46 cars starting Ojibwe tomorrow. Around half are 2wd.

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heymagic
RA on shakey ground and NRS has some percieved internal issues.

Gene, can you enumerate on both sides of the house since you have visibility into both orgs? Splitting hairs as your messages are a bit mixed. Just curious...

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heymagic
Some cloudiness over the future in regards to RA/USAC/SCCA as to 'who is on first' and who will be around next year and the year after. NRS is stable and will be fine.

I would fully expect RA to go away or to change hands entirely in the "off season". The Fogg's appear to have completly lost interest and are not developing anything for the sport or series. They appear to be more caretakers of the Rally America name (and doing a poor job of that) than anything at this point. All that schtick about increasing fees in order to get the series on a stable financial track and then produce new media/coverage/exposure for the competitors was (as usual) all BS. The increase in fees was sure there but they have done little to nothing developing the series this year.

In all likelyhood the increase in fees and 2013 season was to put the series on a better financial track in order to prep it for sale. If they had tried to sell it during the disaster and tumalt that was the '12-'13 offseason they would have been selling at a true low point. Now they can say they've put it "back on track" financially, are bringing in lots of first class international competition and sell the website and whatever intellectual property remains of RA for a slightly smaller loss than they would have had to a year ago.

Prediction?? USAC takes over RA completely in the offseason and the Fogg's are out.

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www.nismostuff.blogspot.com

RA is calling for another organizer 'summit' to discuss next years plans. End of September I believe. Since Olympus dropped out a bit of the information trail has been lost. I 'think' most of the actual RA payroll has been greatly reduced. I 'heard' most of the back debt has been paid. I too suspect RA will have some major changes over the winter, those changes may be known after that meeting...I didn't get an invite

You'd think they'd at least invite you...

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

Quote
heymagic
RA is calling for another organizer 'summit' to discuss next years plans. End of September I believe. Since Olympus dropped out a bit of the information trail has been lost. I 'think' most of the actual RA payroll has been greatly reduced. I 'heard' most of the back debt has been paid. I too suspect RA will have some major changes over the winter, those changes may be known after that meeting...I didn't get an invite

Ouch. yeah, I figured you would have gotten an invite! blacklisted?

See?? I had absolutely ZERO inside information and yet I am still able to guess what's going on just by their actions. They'd be far better off being public:

Fogg Jr. "What originally sounded like a great idea based on attending like two events and deluding myself into thinking I/we had the experience/expertise to take over a fractured and divisive motorsport filled with lots of people with big ideas, bigger egos and miniscule pockets has turned out to be an unmitigated financial disaster for my Dad and has resulted in none of the perceived fame I so readily desired when starting out. It has therefore been decided that the Fogg family is turning over the rights to the Rally America series to USAC who has a long track record of overseeing some of the most prestigious and historic motorsports events in the US. I'm sure they are going to have great ideas on where to take this great sport. For me? I'm returning to the forests of Vermont where I will try and assist my father in propping up our failing VOIP service business. All the best."

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www.nismostuff.blogspot.com

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spalind
See?? I had absolutely ZERO inside information and yet I am still able to guess what's going on just by their actions. They'd be far better off being public:

Fogg Jr. "What originally sounded like a great idea based on attending like two events and deluding myself into thinking I/we had the experience/expertise to take over a fractured and divisive motorsport filled with lots of people with big ideas, bigger egos and miniscule pockets has turned out to be an unmitigated financial disaster for my Dad and has resulted in none of the perceived fame I so readily desired when starting out. It has therefore been decided that the Fogg family is turning over the rights to the Rally America series to USAC who has a long track record of overseeing some of the most prestigious and historic motorsports events in the US. I'm sure they are going to have great ideas on where to take this great sport. For me? I'm returning to the forests of Vermont where I will try and assist my father in propping up our failing VOIP service business. All the best."

I'mmmmm.... like.... totally confused, Dude.

The quote up thar is an actual quote of this Fogg Jr. guy, or it is your imagination?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/23/2013 03:01PM by Jens.