Oooo! The next "this will save rally" is almost here!

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NoCoast

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offcamber
It is my belief that wheel to wheel racing incorporated into the rally is what is needed to grow rally in any significant way.

Rally only needs saved from the capitalists. It seems to do fine in other countries and world wide. The difference is that people rallying in other countries seem to be smart and do things like own construction companies to fund their rallying rather than try to make rallying into a career. Or they rally cars that aren't 250K and they don't get these wild ideas of grandeur.

Regarding EuroRallyCross nonsense.
I'm still not really sure why people care. This is just another form of circuit racing. Throwing the word rally into it doesn't make it rally. Sure a few mildly successful rally people are trying to figure out a way to make a living driving cars. Notice they have realized that stage rallying is not a place to do that in the USA and are looking at new options. Rallying is a grassroots, privateer sport. You will never make money. You will always spend more than you receive. If we could get 200-300 competitors per region that realized this and looked toward competing sustainably and trying to beat their competitors on stage instead of with money then we'd have a product that would be locally marketable and local companies would see a worthwhile reason to maybe cover some entry fees or tires.

Stop making sense or I'm going to bully you.

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NoCoast

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offcamber
It is my belief that wheel to wheel racing incorporated into the rally is what is needed to grow rally in any significant way.

Regarding EuroRallyCross nonsense.
I'm still not really sure why people care. This is just another form of circuit racing. Throwing the word rally into it doesn't make it rally.

Do you think most people involved in Rally share your view that W-W/circuit racing has no place in the future of rally? And yes, i understand that Rally and Racing have two different "dictionary" definitions.

Seeing how rally has shrunk in distance over the years (think Mille Miglia), it would seem that W-W racing could make up for the excitement of surviving huge swaths of land. I know from a spectators and possible drivers point of view, having a rallycross stage with start time based on how many seconds/minutes you are ahead of/behind your competitors gives you a physical representation for how you are doing. One of my other hobbies is mountain bike racing and i can tell you that short track and XC races are much more fun to race than the time trials...

Again, growth of the sport on a national level might be of little concern for some/most of the rallyists out there but i would be interested in just how you plan on reducing the influence of money in the sport and building a bigger LOCAL support base? After all, committed privateers are what have/will sustain the sport in the long run. Seems to me that tort reform might have something to do with it. It might not be the reason why rally is more popular in Europe, but i wouldn't doubt there is some effect on the number of entrants...

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offcamber

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NoCoast

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offcamber
It is my belief that wheel to wheel racing incorporated into the rally is what is needed to grow rally in any significant way.

Regarding EuroRallyCross nonsense.
I'm still not really sure why people care. This is just another form of circuit racing. Throwing the word rally into it doesn't make it rally.

Do you think most people involved in Rally share your view that W-W/circuit racing has no place in the future of rally? And yes, i understand that Rally and Racing have two different "dictionary" definitions.

Seeing how rally has shrunk in distance over the years (think Mille Miglia), it would seem that W-W racing could make up for the excitement of surviving huge swaths of land. I know from a spectators and possible drivers point of view, having a rallycross stage with start time based on how many seconds/minutes you are ahead of/behind your competitors gives you a physical representation for how you are doing. One of my other hobbies is mountain bike racing and i can tell you that short track and XC races are much more fun to race than the time trials...

Again, growth of the sport on a national level might be of little concern for some/most of the rallyists out there but i would be interested in just how you plan on reducing the influence of money in the sport and building a bigger LOCAL support base? After all, committed privateers are what have/will sustain the sport in the long run. Seems to me that tort reform might have something to do with it. It might not be the reason why rally is more popular in Europe, but i wouldn't doubt there is some effect on the number of entrants...

You have some good points but many of them are the same ideas which have come up and have or were nearly always PART of tradional rally UNTIL idiots who bragged they "have the chops" to get "things" done by sheer force of audacious bullshit, convince other know nothings that exact cookie cutter identical format events is what was needed for the "next big thing to save rally" which was a claimed just around the corner TV mass audience. Rallys did do roadrace circuits as foofy gimicks, or even speedway tracks in Europe and i've done "la Hippodrome" in central Quebec 2 times---1km ice covered oval--15 second start intervals--tons of close and very synchronized sideways action.

But gimmick are gimmicks.
We need sheer numbers so that the "impact" of 130-150 cars becomes a serious bargaining chip----regardless if 40 of them are 240 Volvos and 30 are Golves, and 25 are older Subies 24 are Xratties. 15 are Bowel Movement Wonders and not a single one is a has been extreme action adventure soul patch bearded, flat brimmer ex-"star" wasting millions to beat a few cars with 1/30 the budget.

The dichotomy is this "so dogs, do you want to live forever?!!!"*---whoops wrong taunt!
Do you want to concentrate on glorification--presenting a polished and largely phony idealized version, or do you want to engender "identification"---and possibly eventual participation?

So you observations are good, the suggestions are logical and good from your perspective.

The question is wrong tho.
Recruitment and retention and skyrocketing costs---much to fly around the countrty and house and feed and supply rental cars for an increasing large amount of deadwood are the most vexing of problems and they have been since i statrted back in '84 and in this here Car in Field, or Driver in Stream magazine over there the "season review from 1977 " says the same thing

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offcamber
Do you think most people involved in Rally share your view that W-W/circuit racing has no place in the future of rally? And yes, i understand that Rally and Racing have two different "dictionary" definitions.

Yes. They do. The ones who care about rallying. A rally road cannot support wheel to wheel racing and thus it is not possible to do.
The people who are getting hard ons over the GRC stuff are people who have the idea that it will be big and will allow them to compete and get sponsors and be able to fund their racing and maybe fund some rallying on the side. In reality they will no longer go rallying, the money will flow to personalities that already exist (see the people they invited to Gymkhana Grid), and real rallying will survive as a hobby sport.
That doesn't mean that I don't hope that a few people are able to pull that off.

If you want to see "almost" wheel to wheel rallye, there's the Sanair rallye in April. But, still, as John said, it's not real deal.

Still, it's a lot of fun to watch and if you are lucky enough, like about 10 years ago, you can have a fresh snow fall during the night after a few weeks of warm weather, so almost all the competitors are on slick on snow, racing almost wheel to wheel (starts where at 30 sec I think).

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Francois

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NoCoast
I'm still not really sure why people care. This is just another form of circuit racing.

With the current setup, the two are more divorced than ever. Now the people that want to go rallycross can do just that, and those of us who want to race in the woods, we can do that.

Anders

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

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Anders Green

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NoCoast
I'm still not really sure why people care. This is just another form of circuit racing.

With the current setup, the two are more divorced than ever. Now the people that want to go rallycross can do just that, and those of us who want to race in the woods, we can do that.

Anders

....and this is a good thing for real rally.

Just saw on facebook that JVL was spotted at the Irwindale GlobalMechaCross!

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

Maybe we should just start calling it a "lifestyle event."

Sometimes, it's just a matter of public perception.

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Brian Driggs | KG7KCA | PHX, AZ | 89 Pajero
alterius non sit qui suus esse potest

I noticed today on the Idaho Rally site that they are allowing UTV's and ATV's. Could be cool. Though most of the really disabilty causing accidents that have occurred in the Colorado Hill Climb Association have been on quads. Also wondering how they'll handle transits.

I think the plan is get a two car trailer... and just load 'em all up. The ATVs, I think, are road legal in some areas of Idaho, if I recall. I know it's the case in WV for any road without a yellow line in the middle, ATVs are legal even without any tag.

Anders

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

Transits have been approved for all vehicles was what I understood at the last meeting.

Very cool!

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

This is gonna kick ass!

You coming out again Anders?

Remember me from idaho? I was the drunk rally driver who said it was all your fault..

What do you mean that doesn't narrow it down!!!

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A1337STI
Remember me from idaho? I was the drunk rally driver who said it was all your fault..
What do you mean that doesn't narrow it down!!!

Probably because everyone is drunk at Idaho and everyone blames Anders.