Jard Jared Lantzy Senior Moderator Location: Silver Spring, MD Join Date: 09/15/2008 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 112 Rally Car: Free range navigator |
A 1982 Volvo 242 DL, caged and running with:
Stock B23 405 cylinder head Big cam Weber DCOE 45 carbs Stock M45 4-spd 4.56 gears with Volvo (not Dana 30) LSD Bilstein HD rear shocks and R-Sport front strut inserts Now let's pretend that a clone of Ramana Lagemann is going to drive this car against Ramana Lagemann in Derik Nelson's BMW... How do I make the Volvo better in regards to suspension and power output? |
john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Godlike Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
How much comp? Not "I think it'...." Numbers. What cam? Lift? duration, Intake opens ?BTDC, closes ?ATDC? What exhaust? What travel at the rear wheel? And which Bilstein HDs (cause the normal over the counter ones are limp-dick soft) And does the budget theoretically cover a good set of ratios and a shorter final drive? Cause normal would be around 5.1 and then 1st is good for like 1 car length. John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
Jard Jared Lantzy Senior Moderator Location: Silver Spring, MD Join Date: 09/15/2008 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 112 Rally Car: Free range navigator |
Don't even know where to start with comp and exhaust manifold. This is all from a spreadsheet of what came with the car.
Cam is 12.6mm lift, 310 degrees total duration MISAB intake manifolds Exhaust is 2.25" with Flowmaster muffler Bilstein HD rear shock absorbers Stock '82 242 rear springs 1979 242GT anti-sway bars (21mm front, 23mm rear) Polyurethane rear torque rod bushings R-Sport competition strut inserts R-Sport HD front springs (stock height but much stiffer) This might all be bench racing or it might be try to make this thing nationally competitive with the right hotshoe driver. So, sure, budget supports spending a few $thousand on suspension, motor, and transmission. |
john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Godlike Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
ok. are there any headers?
The simple answer is always: Compression, camshaft carburation. You probably have the cam, and "pretty OK" on carb (gotta know what venturis--you should have at least 38s), we can't say about comp. Then the next simple thing is final drive.. 4.88 might do if you had a bad ass motor-- Then the thing that the BMW lacks: half way correct gearbox ratios.. If you listened to the videos even on the freeway like Saturday stages the gaps were massive and the revs plummeted... But to address the premise: what couild you do to match the performance? .match the numbers How much torque x box x rear end? Weight? Suspension travel? Brakes? Steering? I gotta go pick up like 8 gallons of interior paint but more later John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
alkun Albert Kun Godlike Moderator Location: SF Ca. Join Date: 01/07/2008 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 1,732 Rally Car: volvo 242 |
Volvo as described is likely at least 60 hp less than Deriks BMW; 2 less cylinders, 0.6L less dislacement... header from KG Trimming and a bunch of motor work (big valves, head work, perhaps pistons) might start to close the gap, but a turbo motor would be way more cost effective.
Suspension: JVABs or Selholms ($$$$) would be in order to get near to same level as the Reigers in the BMW.. Gearbox: T5 helps a lot, but the Selholm dog box looks tasty (again $$$) This weekend might shed light, Jardevall will be debuting a well built volvo 940 turbo, it should be good competition for the M3s. |
Rallymech Robert Gobright Godlike Moderator Location: White Center Seattle Join Date: 04/27/2008 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 1,292 Rally Car: 91 VW GTI 8V |
The BMW will always have more torque than a NA Volvo.
I have removed and field striped one of the struts on Derek's car. Although they are dimensionally similar to the JVABs there is no comparison in performance. Having said all this I think that the Volvo is still better for many reasons. Robert. "You are way too normal to be on Rally Anarchy." Eddie Fiorelli. |
phlat65 Sean Medcroft Super Moderator Location: Edmonds, Washington Join Date: 02/12/2009 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 1,802 Rally Car: Building a Merkur |
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john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Godlike Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Gawddammit Robert, speak like you know sumpin. The 3000cc BMW probably WILL always have more torque made by the engine....than the torque of a little ol 2364cc Volvo But multiply it thru the gears and thru the axle and look what you have then... Is that clear to others? John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2014 10:03AM by john vanlandingham. |
Andrew_Frick Andrew Frick Infallible Moderator Location: Greenville, SC Join Date: 05/18/2007 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 684 Rally Car: Rally Spec Ford Focus |
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john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Godlike Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
2650lbs ready to rally 215hp @wheels 4:1 R&P Stock gearbox (ratios?) Approx 60% weight o the front VERY good brakes VERY good suspension Books say 225 ft/lbs of torques Be amusing to add real ordinary PRICE to everything too, that IS part of the consideration for most people John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
Andrew_Frick Andrew Frick Infallible Moderator Location: Greenville, SC Join Date: 05/18/2007 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 684 Rally Car: Rally Spec Ford Focus |
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Morison Banned Mod Moderator Location: Calgary, AB Join Date: 03/27/2009 Age: Ancient Posts: 1,798 Rally Car: (ex)86 RX-7(built), (ex)2.5RS (bought) |
'Just' doesn't quite to Reiger justice. Don't forget Nelson also has full time access to Dirt Fish to work on set-up and make sure the suspension settings are optimized. That can't hurt either. First Rally: 2001 Driver (7), Co-Driver (44) Drivers (16) Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4) Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0) Last Updated, January 4, 2015 ![]()
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mellow65 Oliver Klozoff Junior Moderator Location: Oregon Join Date: 09/10/2008 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 480 Rally Car: Nada |
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NoCoast Grant Hughes Elite Moderator Location: Whitefish, MT Join Date: 01/11/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 6,818 Rally Car: BMW |
Reiger is in 6K plus range.
I think he has the Alcon brake setup. Well, maybe, no pics on facebook of brakes, only one was from when being built and shows stock caliper in background. Regardless, $3-3.5k per end. Hintz' car does have that setup. https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/t1.0-9/221694_2040273495118_1960647_n.jpg We're "working" on an slightly more affordable big brake setup for fronts. Like John always says, quantity, quantity, quantity. Decent quantity of hats and radial adapters to keep the price per kit in the 2-2.5k range requires five figure investments. I can't believe the obvious answer hasn't been stated yet. Chevy LS big block and T56 with 2.88 final drive! Grant Hughes |
Jard Jared Lantzy Senior Moderator Location: Silver Spring, MD Join Date: 09/15/2008 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 112 Rally Car: Free range navigator |
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