JVAB for RS 2.5

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Reamer
I get what your saying. I still dont see the huge cost. I wasnt figuring plating or grinding OD because the hydraulic shaft already has that done. None of my shocks are plated on the inside just honed. If I have to buy 100 at $120 a piece then having 8 made is way cheaper. My plan was to run my Ohlin valving in the Bilstien tubes. I didnt think I could get 50mm tubes from Bilstien if I can then I will go that route.

But if its so easy, why isn't everybody doing it?

The unit costs are just unrealistic, the time investment for return bad, even the cost of making the tubes and lock rings and spring seats a bad cost return until you get to a minimum of 20-25 units and really, 40-50 units.
(Nobody said you have to plate the inside---you don't, nobody does).

but just on the chrome step. I can get 1 body chromed or 15 bodies and it costs the same.

Now lets zero in on a detail, not arguing but it might be something of benefit for all: You say you want to do Öhlin valving.
What's different?
What advantage?

Now I know what was ''drastically'' different on the bike stuff that I learned on when I worked at Öhlins (I was subcontracted to work there by my boss Perter Strandh at Sollentuna Svets och Smide. He was training Kenta's guys on how to run the machine he built to weld the eyelet ends onto the body, so while Kenta's mechanics Tomas Petersson (he lived a few doors up on the same street as I did) and Magnus Nyberg were learning that---so that when production commenced, they could in turn train whoever they hired in----I was mechaincing on the bikes in the repair dept and assembling new bikes----so my experience pre-dates public sale of Öhlins, and the last I serviced any was late 80s) )but it was then, Spring 76, that I learned first internals).
, but the only remarkable thing that I know of was the compression side limiting washers.
EVERYTHING else (including 40 and 50mm Bilsteins now) was a flat washer.

Kenta came up with 3, 5, and 7 degree tapers which limited max deflection of the shim stack. That 7 degree on was the hot ticket on surfaces like we rally on: hard and chucks or potholes.


But tell me (not arguing---sharing, m-kay) what are you thinking is special about the Öhlins valving?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

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john vanlandingham
But tell me (not arguing---sharing, m-kay) what are you thinking is special about the Öhlins valving?

I'm willing to bet the answer is simply the adjustability...click click click. With the Ohlins on the Evo, the valving has a range so that I can swap between ~300# and ~450# springs (gravel vs rough tarmac) and still use the same damper. Also, if I don't like how the car behaves, there's the chance to make little tweaks to it right now.

Of course for what Ohlins sell for, you could have 4-5 sets of JVABs, one set for every surface you can think of...and since you need to pull a shock off the car to swap springs, having a set for a different surface is actually easier. Oh, and this is rally, so spares are good too - try that with Ohlins!

Dave

That‘s the adjusters, not the valving specifically. I was wondering if he was talking valving---the piston head and the shim stacks.

But that bit about spares is a hugely vital point. I price my stuff and strongly advise boy that they ought to have a spare front and rear unit zip tied to the side of the van just waiting.

EVERYTHING can be kilt to death and bearing in my the inflexible law-of-the-rally-gods "If you have spare___________ you'll never need it' and its corollary "If you don't have spare ____________ with you, that's the exact thing you will need"

So I say get a spare front and a spare rear. If that's too much cost at one time, get a spare insert and a shock (and maybe lock ring and spring seat) so you can finish the damn event you just towed x miles and paid $$$$$ to enter.
Big advantage!

and I get to sell more parts, so big smiles here!

Hey speakin' o which, you know I have some shorter strut tubes for your thing sitting here dontcha?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
john vanlandingham
Hey speakin' o which, you know I have some shorter strut tubes for your thing sitting here dontcha?

Yep - just gotta get the rear end figured out so I can really go pound on the car for a few days, make sure I'm happy with it, then think about ordering up spare stuff. Plan is for Land's End Hill Climb in early August, then Ojib/LSPR this fall.

Of course the most important question is: do I stick the blower on it or not?

Dave

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DaveK

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john vanlandingham
Hey speakin' o which, you know I have some shorter strut tubes for your thing sitting here dontcha?

Yep - just gotta get the rear end figured out so I can really go pound on the car for a few days, make sure I'm happy with it, then think about ordering up spare stuff. Plan is for Land's End Hill Climb in early August, then Ojib/LSPR this fall.

Of course the most important question is: do I stick the blower on it or not?

Dave

Naw. Just floor it.
he who does the most-est with the least-est and all that.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
Reamer
I get what your saying. I still dont see the huge cost. I wasnt figuring plating or grinding OD because the hydraulic shaft already has that done.

So you want to bore the center out of a piece of big pre-plated hydraulic shaft?

That stuff has a core made out of playdoh...super gummy and hard to machine. Might want to look at the L/D for that operation too. A rough calculation puts it at over 10:1 which means you need an expensive de-vibe or carbide boring bar to pull it off or just go strait to gun-drilling. The easy way is to roller burninsh the bore but that tool would be over $10K alone. Welding to the nitrided case hardeing on the outer surface can be tricky too.

It doesn't hurt to try but I wouldn't spend my time on it. Good luck to you and let us know how it works.

That was the plan. It does sound like it would have to be gun drilled. Would rather have 50mm Bilstien tubes. Guess I was naive after more research but I thought it was a good idea so I shared it.

The reason for the Ohlin valving is because Im familiar with them and have quit a few pistons and all the shims I would need to build about anything I want. I dont have 7degree pistons but I do have 4 degree rebound 2 degree compression pistons. I also make my own rebound adjustable shafts out of the stock shafts it takes about 20 min on an old lathe and saves $200.00.

Im thinking of using Fox canisters for the top and get rid of the separater piston in the tube to gang travel without making the shock longer. This would also give me adjustment of compression fairly cheap.

Wow, there's a lot of confusing shit in this thread.

I'm a low budget (try to be) privateer who just wants to hop in his car and stand on the gas.

at least for NNR i can't imagine a spot on course where i wanted to adjust anything with my suspension. NNR Roads are beautiful. Friday night stages, used 2 5 mile chunks of road, one of those had a few mild rough spots (or they felt mild on the jvabs anyways) i was happily surprised that i could largely ignore the roughness and drive as normal. seemed like i floated over it and never had any wheel spin/ lift or hop. just Peddle down.

Friday night i felt off my game a little, Honestly i felt like i was driving a bit chicken shit, not setting up as wide as i should have been, not fully committing to the notes , physced myself out a bit due to my uber low tread tires (front right was down to the wear bars) when i got fresh rubber on at service i drove a stage with the pressures way to high, finally dialed them in before stage 6, car felt much better, but i was still on the same turtle pace.

Got 5th overall, 2nd in Open lite, missing first by 6 seconds.

Saturday stages were faster, flowing, lots of washes, jumps, and Kicks, round embedded rocks in your apex, but graded dirt around them, very smooth so you won't hurt a rim, but it wants to toss that side of the car up in the air.

I was again very happily surprised at how well the JVABS stuck my car to the ground. there's a section i remember from last year .. something like a R6 short into L5 short into R5 short into L6 short, with 2 of the corners having large (smooth kicks) Rocks in the apex. last year i hit that section pretty fast and jumped my car (if you find the right line you can just barely move your steering wheel and make it through)

This year i took it faster, but the tires stayed on the round. so i stayed on the gas. i also found a L6/big crest where i got really light, but again tires stayed connected just enough to the road that i didn't slid off ,

Also the big jump didn't feel nearly as jarring as it did last year.

I ran 2nd overall for saturday behind Dick Rockhorr, won my class. and won combined AWD for the weekend.

Thanks JVAB , great suspension. Clearly if you want to keep your suspension budget just a hair below 2k, There's no question who to go to. Wish i had paid the $800 difference a few years ago when i got my other setup. my last setup i felt was a Great value @ 1200. but this setup is an even better value and i love being cheap, so that says a lot.

now i need to get back to work, and try to rehydrate, fricken lost 12 pounds of water weight in 2 days ... lol

Boys, I have just taken apart the passenger rear strut off Alex rademacher's Subie and man the gawddam ears are BENT FORWARD something horrible.

Mark Piatowski and kevin Turner out East also bent their rear ears FORWARD.

This is NOT something anybody is thrilled about, trust me. But it is flat weird how they are bent and kinda twisted...all very similarly...to similar to be 'random smacking into bad shit sideways' type stuff..

I have suggested that maybe it is the links and arms all moving around so the bottom of the strut isn't "underneath" the top---which is bolted down pretty solid.

But this is screaming that the knuckle itself has done the tweaking.

Now follow with me, we gotta figure this out cause suspension not working sucks...

Everything in suspension describes arcs. It appears that the knuckle is moving up and forward--well it IS moving up, and as it goes UP, especially all the way up, it is moving -----> thataway (looking at Pass. side)
and is mechanically bending the ears...

Can somebody pull off a spring (and maybe pull out the bump stop inside so that full travel is available) and cycle the suspension and watch what going on?

I am wondering if there a big bend moment that maybe easiest way to resolve is with a spherical bearing that accomodates the pivot..

But I am flummoxed...other guys haven't bent stuff like this on same set ups, what's the que paso?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Pics or ban!
Mitch is ripping ears off his DMS at almost every event these days. I'll look closer Thursday and see if it's forward or backward and I'll even take a picture and post it. Might just be a design flaw that will lead to a need for stronger ears and more gussets.

Yea I'm having trouble picturing what yer' talkin' 'bout.

But I do remember some weirdness last time I gave them a lookover after Idaho. I won't be able to recheck for a couple days though.

---

Brap Brap.

Quote
john vanlandingham
Can somebody pull off a spring (and maybe pull out the bump stop inside so that full travel is available) and cycle the suspension and watch what going on?

wanna video? it'll have to wait til the weekend though. and I thought we were just bending the inserts? in. although my rear hubs are different enough than mark and alex to make a difference.

Boys there is sumpin going on, and we gotta work together on this, I don't have a local victim car..

I'll see if i can draw and scan a piccie, AND I'll call the Spring guys and confirm the travel in those 14" springs to double check and try to rule that out...

And I'll see if I can post photo of Alex cause its so dramatic.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Throwing this out there, just sorta reminds me of how the STI struts (also inverted monotubes, albeit smaller) are reputed to eat themselves up around the upper bushing area relatively quick. With the way the struts are angled, I'd be amazed if there wasn't some bending motion going on there.

I have other stuff on the lift or I'd volunteer for viddy.

This might not help much, since its zoomed in a bit, but here's the only pic I have of that strut while still on Alex's car.