Back at it again... Evo IX SPGT Build

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Gravel Spray
ACD, if you can get a reflash of a Ralliart K2 or the real thing its the shit. Consider that Ralliart has some of the best rally engineers in the world, and assisting them in the software calibration some of the best drivers(evo Gp N) in the world, their product is directed at you, the brand and your success, why bother with wankers telling you otherwise? Once you get in 100 events in an evo...then perhaps get a gems or motec and start fucking with the maps and be sure to stack up some acd pumps you'll need them if your going to be working the system hard.

How do the pumps fail? Does the electric motor burn out, or does the hydraulic pump fail? Just curious if they can rebuilt once they go or if you have to bin them.

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Nubby

Quote
Gravel Spray
ACD, if you can get a reflash of a Ralliart K2 or the real thing its the shit. Consider that Ralliart has some of the best rally engineers in the world, and assisting them in the software calibration some of the best drivers(evo Gp N) in the world, their product is directed at you, the brand and your success, why bother with wankers telling you otherwise? Once you get in 100 events in an evo...then perhaps get a gems or motec and start fucking with the maps and be sure to stack up some acd pumps you'll need them if your going to be working the system hard.

How do the pumps fail? Does the electric motor burn out, or does the hydraulic pump fail? Just curious if they can rebuilt once they go or if you have to bin them.

Two modes of failure, #1 when using the ralliart K2 or more so, an aftermarket controller it's inevitable that you'll be working the pump harder, the motor tends to give out and what will happen here is you'll start getting faults. You can test the pump PSI pretty easy but keep in mind that it's ability to make max psi, and doing it rapidly are two different issues so as soon as we had any issue at all we swapped it out. Failure mode #2 is dirt, it's got a high quality proportional valve and any dirt (and I mean ANY particulate matter) at all will jam it. We ran Group N and Open, so with the Group N car the homologated version, it's back at the left rear under the bumper skin and you can't relocate it, a real bitch to keep clean. We had the res in a sealed encloser and used a cotton sock coated with k&n filter oil to cover it. On one open car we had it behind the driver on the floor, the next open car we moved it to the co-driver side just in front of the foot rest so it's close as possible to the diff. Also, we used the homologated version pumps which are arranged horizontally, the US version is upright so getting it under the dash with the heater there is likely not doable. I'm sure someone will go through the effort to attempt to rebuild them but honestly in my position, renting the car to a paying driver it wasn't worth the risk so we bought new ones from Japan.

It's my understanding that during MEM UK's SCCA season with Higgins they figured out an uprated motor solution and it was supposed to be a electric Volvo PS pump they had adapted.

Also, keep in mind that if you move it into the cabin you need to either make a metal res or come up with a cover as the fluid is under pressure and flamible.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/31/2012 02:43PM by Gravel Spray.

Thanks for the info! This is the gory stuff you don't hear about on general interest Evo forums.

General interest evo forums contain nothing but disinformation, seriously.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/31/2012 03:14PM by Gravel Spray.

A bit of a dumb question, but how much better are Ohlins than RSSP or Proflex? My experience has only been with Bilstein primarily and a little with DMS. The reason i'm asking is I have the opportunity to pick up a used set of the newest Ohlins that may be within my price range (300 Miles on them) not much more expensive than the rssp w/ hydraulic bump stops.

I'm a little worried about putting such expensive suspension on this car being that clipping a corner and bringing spares along would prove to be quite expensive. On the other hand talking to different drivers that have actually tried out different struts, everyone recommends a higher quality dampener as is makes the car a whole lot quicker and safer.

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Sowa Motorsports
#274 M.Rodzinski
Attending: WWU ~ Vehicle Design
WWU Formula Sae: Powertrain

Previous:
1990 Galant Vr4 (Open) <= Sold
2003 Evo VIII (Open)<= Sold to Joseph Burke

Current:
2006 Evo IX (SP)

While not a direct scientific comparison, I tested a 99 impreza with the top spec RS&SP and a 2007 impreza with the ohlins back to back on the same road and could definately feel an improvement with the ohlins. This is just by feel and opinion, and it could have even been due simply to the shock settings or something, but the 07 car with the ohlins certainly behaved better, not that the RS&SP's behaved badly. The RS&SPs are great and I know they were on the overall podium at Oregon, so you can still be competitive overall without having to spend the big bucks for ohlins.

I've also delt with both rallispec (rs&sp distributor/service) and AMF (ohlins dealer/service) and I would much recommend dealing with AMF over rallispec.

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Mitsudriver274
A bit of a dumb question, but how much better are Ohlins than RSSP or Proflex? My experience has only been with Bilstein primarily and a little with DMS. The reason i'm asking is I have the opportunity to pick up a used set of the newest Ohlins that may be within my price range (300 Miles on them) not much more expensive than the rssp w/ hydraulic bump stops.

I'm a little worried about putting such expensive suspension on this car being that clipping a corner and bringing spares along would prove to be quite expensive. On the other hand talking to different drivers that have actually tried out different struts, everyone recommends a higher quality dampener as is makes the car a whole lot quicker and safer.

Clearly, Ohlins are the gold standard of rally suspensions, yes Reiger and ex-tc are better, but even more expensive and maintainance intensive.

The real question is what can you afford to deal with, new RSSP or someones castoff Ohlins? To be totally honest, at the sharp end of the field 95% of those guys will lie cheat and steal to get to the next event, or gain a small margin with a newer/better anything because they're "on the cusp of something big". Why in the fuck would a guy sell a set of Ohlins with "only 300 miles" on them... time to get real man. I've had several used sets sent to me for fitment only to find them fucked, miss matched inserts, shim stacks etc etc etc. Bigger teams will clean out the shelves and put together a bunch of shit and off it to recoup some ching. Buyer beware, used suspension is always fucked. Get something new and know what you've got.

On the subject of getting real, can you help us a little in advising you for what suspension might be appropriate:


How many seasons at National level have you completed?

[ ]5-7
[ ] 8-10
[ ]10+ seasons

What is your current Seed or "Speed Factor"

[ ] .97--1.00
[ ] .90--.96
[ ] .80--.89
[ ] below .80

How many struts do you typically kill per event?

[ ] 0
[ ] 1-2
[ ] 3 or more

What do you expect that you will gain by using the most expensive suspension available?

[ ] factory ride for the National Series and 100k salary
[ ] WRC ride and $3,000,000 salary p.a.
[ ] sainthood
[ ] big chinga chinga action from all the groupies


You seem to be all over the place originally asking about Hot Bitch and saying a whatever controller is too expensive, then going to the other extreme and talking about stuff overkill even for 99% of the field at the highest level, so help us get a grip what you've done so we're not just bench-wanking...

You did say in passing the astute concern for spares, keep thinking of that and think of that if you are mulling some stuff that you know it might be 4 to 7 months to get spares or service..

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Well I can tell you the kid is frickin fast. His dad is an excellent teacher and I would suspect in any kind of EVO he'll be running for the top spot out here any event they enter. Don't question his ability or background, he's the real deal.

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heymagic
Well I can tell you the kid is frickin fast. His dad is an excellent teacher and I would suspect in any kind of EVO he'll be running for the top spot out here any event they enter. Don't question his ability or background, he's the real deal.

Oh I've met dad and the kid, I just am wondering why folks think they need the best most, expensive stuff in the world to go play local events for nothing.

There's only so much fun a human can endure and the fun return per dollar spent curves are identical..

Here is a curve that illustrates this discussion so far, ignore the titles, just look at the curve:


Here's the fun return curve. Overlay them your self:


Just how much more fun can it be with some of the stuff being thrown around? Would Pro-leenSSPs be 2 or 3 or 4 times more fun?

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

I have a few national events under my belt. My speed factor currently as of rally america is 0.89. I have never killed a bilstein but we always rebuilt the struts every two events. What I expect to gain by running expensive suspension is a competitive advantage. Unfortunately money does have an impact on ride quality in this aspect.

I respect your opinion Mr. Vanlandingham and you make very good points that I have brought into consideration myself but my question was about the quality difference and ride quality between RSSP/Proflex and Ohlins. Whether we will be using them or not is something a bit out of my control but I would like to be as well informed as possible.

The only reason the ohlins came up is because I have a killer deal on them from a rally friend.

Tony thank you for the ACD maps, I will try them out and let you know what I think.

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Sowa Motorsports
#274 M.Rodzinski
Attending: WWU ~ Vehicle Design
WWU Formula Sae: Powertrain

Previous:
1990 Galant Vr4 (Open) <= Sold
2003 Evo VIII (Open)<= Sold to Joseph Burke

Current:
2006 Evo IX (SP)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/01/2012 02:19AM by Mitsudriver274.

Quote
Mitsudriver274

Tony thank you for the ACD maps, I will try them out and let you know what I think.

Thanks! I'd like to hear some feedback since I haven't got a chance to run them.

Micheal,

PM me your email. I'll forward it to ACP with a request to contact you regarding EVO suspension and whatever else you may question. He has used Ohlin and liked it very much at the time. Seems like he thought it was no comparison to DMS but that has been a couple years and my old guy memory ain't so good.

I have 2 friends that use/used HotBits. Both broke them without being stupid but HB did warranty them right away and made design changes because of the problems. Obviously they weren't optimum out of the box but it seems they are making large strides in improving the product.

If the Ohlins thing is valid that would be the route I'd choose in this instance but be cautious as Pete indicated.

Gene sent you an email, I'm very excited to talk to ACP.

I really appreciate your help, thank you.

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Sowa Motorsports
#274 M.Rodzinski
Attending: WWU ~ Vehicle Design
WWU Formula Sae: Powertrain

Previous:
1990 Galant Vr4 (Open) <= Sold
2003 Evo VIII (Open)<= Sold to Joseph Burke

Current:
2006 Evo IX (SP)

Could someone point me to some distributors for gravel rims, the only company I know of is compomotive.

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Sowa Motorsports
#274 M.Rodzinski
Attending: WWU ~ Vehicle Design
WWU Formula Sae: Powertrain

Previous:
1990 Galant Vr4 (Open) <= Sold
2003 Evo VIII (Open)<= Sold to Joseph Burke

Current:
2006 Evo IX (SP)