JVl Focus rear suspension and disc conversion

Quote
Pete

Quote
john vanlandingham
Why is in 2012 drum brakes being discussed? Why did some OEM drone accountant decide to make drum brakes?

For a street car, they are basically immortal. Rear brakes go for something like 150-250k (miles!!) before they're worn out, nowadays.

Rear disks suck big donkey balls, always siezing up. Problem if you want to warranty them, not a problem for us.

I'm going to have to agree with John-I'm embarassed for for any manufacturer that still puts drums on anything.

Maybe we should look into bringing back "friction shocks" too?
Three on the tree?

I do agree with Pete on the lasting forever(I got about 130,000 on my Focus rears before replacing).

I don't live in the snow/salt-so never heard of anyone not in those areas with a seizing problem on rear discs..

The rear brake parts on these look like a childs toy car brakes-they do work-until you go through a water puddle-or god forbid-mud!

Then,like all drum brakes-you got nothing going on back there till most of it finally works it's way out.

For that alone-make mine rear discs please!

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Quote
RALLYRS

Quote
Pete

Quote
john vanlandingham
Why is in 2012 drum brakes being discussed? Why did some OEM drone accountant decide to make drum brakes?

For a street car, they are basically immortal. Rear brakes go for something like 150-250k (miles!!) before they're worn out, nowadays.

Rear disks suck big donkey balls, always siezing up. Problem if you want to warranty them, not a problem for us.

I'm going to have to agree with John-I'm embarassed for for any manufacturer that still puts drums on anything.

Maybe we should look into bringing back "friction shocks" too?
Three on the tree?

I do agree with Pete on the lasting forever(I got about 130,000 on my Focus rears before replacing).

I don't live in the snow/salt-so never heard of anyone not in those areas with a seizing problem on rear discs..

The rear brake parts on these look like a childs toy car brakes-they do work-until you go through a water puddle-or god forbid-mud!

Then,like all drum brakes-you got nothing going on back there till most of it finally works it's way out.

For that alone-make mine rear discs please!

My last enduro bikes were drum, and we very occasionally have just a bit of humidity up here, so my boss, a clever fellow named Chuck Scheibel who rode a Husqvarna automatic--which freewheeled on over-run so ZERO engine braking---one day just drilled a whole buncha holes in the working surface--so I dood-ed it too...
Work marvelous..
Did it with drums on my Saab and used a triangular file to file slots in the shoe friction material.....

yeah. fawkit.
disco!

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

OK, so I went out on this beautiful spring day and grovelled in a junk yard so we can keep moving with this. Picked up stuff as "core seeds".
Now all the moaning and groaning about all this heavy work, well booo-fawkin hoo
A) start with this:


Pull hub set aside,
pullshoes and junk out of the way, pitch in the recycle heap .....4 minutes....

Grind the two tiny rivets off...2 minutes



Carve thru the side face of the drum, trim to the step.....10 minutes casually dodging hot chips
Slide back on, tighten nut


Set the Way Back machine for when you was in college on the Evergreen College Ultimate Frisbee team and frisbee the disc onto the new disc brake hub you made in 10 minutes


Nice 280mm disc, Ford bolt circle and centerbore, cost $21...



Next up, caliper brackets..

Now, all you whining nay-sayers, maybe shut up and learn how easy some things are..and if you haven't done something or know something, it doesn't mean it's unknowable of un-doable..

Oh there should be some video clip showing what wonderful strong "proven good" stuff that N/S link is...

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
john vanlandingham
OK, so I went out on this beautiful spring day and grovelled in a junk yard so we can keep moving with this. Picked up stuff as "core seeds".
Now all the moaning and groaning about all this heavy work, well booo-fawkin hoo
A) start with this:


Pull hub set aside,
pullshoes and junk out of the way, pitch in the recycle heap .....4 minutes....

Grind the two tiny rivets off...2 minutes



Carve thru the side face of the drum, trim to the step.....10 minutes casually dodging hot chips
Slide back on, tighten nut


Set the Way Back machine for when you was in college on the Evergreen College Ultimate Frisbee team and frisbee the disc onto the new disc brake hub you made in 10 minutes


Nice 280mm disc, Ford bolt circle and centerbore, cost $21...



Next up, caliper brackets..

Now, all you whining nay-sayers, maybe shut up and learn how easy some things are..and if you haven't done something or know something, it doesn't mean it's unknowable of un-doable..

Oh there should be some video clip showing what wonderful strong "proven good" stuff that N/S link is...

Oooooooh me likey.......

---

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Support your Local North American Rally Forum!!

While they are still around-and get the hell off Farsebook!!

We still have Specialstage & RallyAnarchy.

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Oh yeahm, baby, I got everybody all fppled into buying a whole lotta useless stuff, I'm gonna get rich selling these 8 and 12 dollar links!
Check out this "proven " good shit, mang..

<object width="420" height="315"><param name="movie" value="

?version=3&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always">

Why would anybody want something better-er than this?

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

John, to play devils advocate here. That beam is meant to take longitudinal loads, while the othe link (not shown) is meant for the lateral loads.
Yes, that link is not very stiff in that direction. It's not meant to take loads in the direction you were pushing on it.
Saying that, I think you would be stupid to not run something beefed up for rally on a Focus!

Quote
Robert Culbertson
John, to play devils advocate here. That beam is meant to take longitudinal loads, while the othe link (not shown) is meant for the lateral loads.
Yes, that link is not very stiff in that direction. It's not meant to take loads in the direction you were pushing on it.
Saying that, I think you would be stupid to not run something beefed up for rally on a Focus!

Trust me i understand loads after 45 years of working on highly stressed steel race parts..and being lucky enough to get clear education from a few good engineers...there are some.
Go get groceries and that POS will last forever seeing only loads ^ and V

Malheuresment, mon ami quelle que fois....we go sideways and not only that some of us hit stuff while going sideways, and its a problem then

its 4mm thick. I can bend it over my knee--sideways...

It's junk--for what we--as priaveers paying 5-6 hundred dollars to play--need.

worse than a VW rear beam and that's saying something..
And the whole rear subframe, (groan) it should be double skinned, its paper thin...scary really.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/2013 10:34PM by john vanlandingham.

Fully understand John. There are a few good engineers out there. For the intended design, it works. But! When hit sideways the arms don't stand much of a chance (this might be good with the crappy sub-frames). Also, the front arms are fairly beefy. The stock tie-rods usually bend first. I grew up on a gravel road, I may have been through a few ditches (and fences) with my Focus.
Are you going to include some camber adjustablity to the arms as well? The stock stuff gains maddddd negative camber (yo!) after 230k mi.

Quote
Robert Culbertson
Fully understand John. There are a few good engineers out there. For the intended design, it works. But! When hit sideways the arms don't stand much of a chance (this might be good with the crappy sub-frames). Also, the front arms are fairly beefy. The stock tie-rods usually bend first. I grew up on a gravel road, I may have been through a few ditches (and fences) with my Focus.
Are you going to include some camber adjustablity to the arms as well? The stock stuff gains maddddd negative camber (yo!) after 230k mi.

Not sure what John has in store for rear camber..but I thought I saw in his pics that the only links he DIDN't replace were the factory curved arms-which I believe are forged steel.

I'm running these:

http://www.spcalignment.com/component/spc/?task=part_description&pid=67420&region=USA&make=Ford&model=Focus&year=2000+-+2010&from=USAFrom&to=USATo


I'm not thrilled that they are made in China,but they are Forged(buy them from a trusted vendor-not Ebay - as spc stuff gets counterfeited quite a bit I hear)and have been used for years by many....

There are some other rear options(which you might want to avoid IMHO-but just showing what's out there):

http://www.spcalignment.com/component/spc/?task=part_description&pid=81310&region=USA&make=Ford&model=Focus&year=2000+-+2010&from=USAFrom&to=USATo


http://www.massivespeedsystem.com/_massive_speed_system_/massive_racespec_adjustable_camber_arms/g-62761.aspx



http://dominanteng.com/2010/12/17/ford-focus-and-svt-camber-arms/


Personally-I'll stick with these Forged steel SPC arms-those massive speed billets above are street stuff and unproven ,and they are aluminum(derp!)-probably more than enough for street-but rally?

The Dominant guy-boy I'd sure like him to build me a header or intake or something-check out his site... http://dominanteng.com/

But it appears his suspension design engineering is a bit lacking.

Make sure if you are replacing factory parts on even your street car,that the guy who engineered your "trick part" has a clue about "stresses" and all that fancy engineering stuff that I personally don't have a clue about .


Threads with scary pics showing broken front and rear tubular control arms from various vendors(including Dominant):

http://forums.focaljet.com/mk-i-suspension/668258-broken-lca-what-do.html


http://forums.focaljet.com/mk-i-suspension/667584-aftermarket-control-arms-who-has-broken-what.html

These drivers were lucky they weren't hurt or killed ...


I trust anything John would make would be super beefy for rally...

but it looks like the street/track guys could use something more beefy as well.

Obviously I'd use stock stamped junk before any of those "trick' adjustable tubular street stuff I posted above....

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John. What Focus rally cars are you talking about? I didn't think they got sideways in USA.

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Grant Hughes

Stealin JVAB color. Shame on them. Sue, sue, sue.

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"Talk about drugs. Driving a car like that, going that fast, it’s like all the drugs at once." - Tommy Byrne

"Now, Pinky, if by any chance you are captured during this mission, remember you are Gunther Heindriksen from Appenzell. You moved to Grindelwald to drive the cog train to Murren. Can you repeat that?" - The Brain

Those tubular front control arms are all scary. "Let's make something lighter, in a less efficient design, and say it's 'stiffer and stronger'. They'll sell like hot cakes!" I also like the iddi-bitty tubes in bending with huge stress raisers in the middle of them. It also looks like the welds are too hot on the raw ones, this could cause a greater heat effected zone than necessary.

The stock arms are a great use of material. Fully boxed. Reinforce the underside with a sheet if you deem it necessary.

Quote
wvonkessler
Stealin JVAB color. Shame on them. Sue, sue, sue.

Know a good lawyer?

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
john vanlandingham
Know a good lawyer?

Lawyer, yes. Good one? Not so much.

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Grant Hughes

Quote
NoCoast
John. What Focus rally cars are you talking about? I didn't think they got sideways in USA.

Excellent point. So why do they need beefed up rear suspension???