How would YOU "save" Rallying in N.A.?

this topic seems to permeate every thread about rallying on pretty much every rally related online forum.

i thought it deserved its own thread for once.

i think the key to growing rally is a local series that can gaurantee at least 4-5 smaller events for at least 3 years. these events should have very low entry fees. no rented banquet hall just a big EZ up and some pizza and pop. 3years of conistant events will encourage locals to build cars as they know there will be an affordable place to use them in the future.

i am aware of this working very well in CO and the PNW.

here is another question:

as a regional competitor would you add 25 bucks to your entry if it were donated to a prize fund that paid out to the top 5 or more depending on the entries?

recently we had a regional event in MN that i could not go to to work at but i kicked in 25 bucks to a 2wd prize fund as i would have spent way more than that on gas to get there.

Greg Donovan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> this topic seems to permeate every thread about
> rallying on pretty much every rally related online
> forum.

And it HAS been infused into some peoples posts and concerns for decades.
>
> i thought it deserved its own thread for once.
>
> i think the key to growing rally is a local series
> that can gaurantee at least 4-5 smaller events for
> at least 3 years. these events should have very
> low entry fees. no rented banquet hall just a big
> EZ up and some pizza and pop.

Well I was with you till the reference to pop. You have any idea what's in pop!!??
For all you know there could be waste oil and radio-active shit from a Nuc-u-lar powerplant in sody pop. Good GOD!!!!
So forget that shit!
There MUST BE BEER.
Worldwide rally RUNS ON BEER!
When I've told people in the whole world that people actually make suggestions of
having rally presentations or meetings that don't include beer I get looks like this:


Yeah disgust mixed with disbelief.

So forget that, that's crazy talk!



3years of conistant
> events will encourage locals to build cars as they
> know there will be an affordable place to use them
> in the future.
>
> i am aware of this working very well in CO and the
> PNW.
>
> here is another question:
>
> as a regional competitor would you add 25 bucks to
> your entry if it were donated to a prize fund that
> paid out to the top 5 or more depending on the
> entries?

Sure, why not?
>
> recently we had a regional event in MN that i
> could not go to to work at but i kicked in 25
> bucks to a 2wd prize fund as i would have spent
> way more than that on gas to get there.

But what we need as the foundation of this effort is CLUBS and CLUB meetings where people go and DRINK BEER.
And people need to GO to the meetings!
EVERYBODY goes: drivers co-drivers, mechanics, buddies who hang around, ORGANISERS,
fambly members so they can schmooze, and they need to be frequent enough that people DO GET TO KNOW FOLKS AS PROPLES, not merely race day roles.

This very forum was invented out of a little mini meeting at my house and a perceived need for something where frank discussions could take place and where WE'D KNOW EACH OTHER'S NAMES---and I say we should have a "Wall of Fame" or Wall of Shame so we'd begin to really think of each other as Bob and harry and Josh not some silly name.

So good thoughts greg, just slightly off with all the crazy talk of poisonous sugar water.
>
>

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

I honestly believe that the national series needs to be suspended for two or more years. The national series should be the top level of rally in this country, the icing on the cake, so to speak. But without the national series, what do we have? Seriously, if you take away the national series, what does US rally look like? Is there any cake under the icing?

---

Monika Hawkinson
Seattle, WA

I'm with JVL on this one......BEER

---

Jon Burke - KI6LSW
Blog: http://psgrallywrx.blogspot.com/

forgive me for omitting beer.

i just assumed that beer would be there no matter what and didnt need to be mentioned.

i agree on the clubs that actually meet in person. i think that is one thing that the internet has hurt. sure i can talk to people from across the country at the drop of a hat but what about the people across town or in the next county?

the geography of N.A. is such a massive hurdle and i think that now more than ever a viable nationwide series with broad participation is not sustainable. it was in the mid to late 90s and even as recent as 5-6 years ago but not now.

i realize that you and many others have been saying that for a while. i think what was going on was that for many of us was that we were doing our best and devoting our energy into what we had going on at the moment and didnt want/feel the need to spend any energy doing something else. the system did not appear to be broken so why fix it?

whne was the last time an event turned away cars? maine 2000?

I'm doing what I would do to save Rally in NA.

Rallying needs a major over haul on its foundation.

We can't change the cost of fuel, or safety equipment, or event insurance. Those are all things outside of the control of almost everybody.

So what can we do?

The obvious solution is to find a way to make rally more valuable, for competitors, for organizers, and yes, for local businesses.

A big part of this solution is to create a more horizontally and vertically integrated rally community. We need more people, we need more sustainable competitors, we need more organizers, and we need more workers. Shear numbers of PEOPLE is what will save rally, not sponsors, not a driver over seas, MORE PEOPLE.

One thing we are trying to do with the Colorado Rally Cup is re-involve the RallyCross community back into the overall fold. This isn't something that needs to be done everywhere but here in CO we have seen each element of the community become more self focused and absorbed. The stage rally only guys didn't really hang out with the hill climbers, the hill climbers didn't really do much with the RallyCrossers, and the RallyCrossers kind of just did their own thing. The reality is is that all of these people love racing, love doing it on dirt, and have so much in common that they can be a great series of resources.

When I started to get into rally RallyCross was what was local, approachable, and affordable. I could do 10 events and have a set of wheels and tires for a couple hundred dollars a year. So I started doing rallycross and couldn't get enough of rally, but what stood out was the rally cars coming and just tearing it up. So many of the current rally guys in CO started at RallyCrossers, and the reality is is that is where your new blood comes from. RallyCross is entry level enough that it is a great feeder into driving, crewing, co-driving, and organizers and so on.

We took the CRC back to rallycross to help connect the rally community at large back together here in CO. And it is working!

So back to the original point.

Rallying needs to find a way to be more valuable because so many of the costs simply can't be changed.

Shorter, closer, and cheaper events are good, shorter, closer, cheaper events with lots of entries are better. I don't think there is an other part of the country where a rally team could enter 6 rally weekends a year, with an average cost under $280.00 (factor in the pay out back from hill climbs and that is 6 rally weekends a year with an average per event of under $215.00). That is 6 rally weekends, with 20+ cars per event, super tight racing and a great community focused atmosphere.

That right there is sustainable, that is what we need more of.

At this point I'll stop for a while as I am beginning to ramble...

my dream is that there is at least 5 single day regional rallies a year within a 2-3 hour drive of at least 30 competitors in each region. too bad very few parts of the country have the population density to pull something like this off.

there has to be at least 2-3 stretches of road in every state that can be closed for a couple weekends a year.

I am not sure it can be saved in the US. Canada is doing much better. I know nothing about the Mexican scene.

The sooner RA, it's way out of control BS-Hype machine, and the parasitic morons that follow it, IMPLODES, the sooner real US hardcore rallyists can go back out in the woods and race.

I don't need x-games or tv coverage or the world wide web to go rallying. US rallying did better when it flew below the radar. Greedy people, who naturally want increased sponsorship and recognition for their hobby, consitantly do a dis-service to the sport in the US.

US event organizors have no way to police their events from today's gen-x wannabees in their blue WRXs (with full worx ebay decal package) who think they are as gifted behind the wheel as Petter and that public roads are just another video game. The more that these idiots see 43 and 199 beating up on Colin McRae on TV or You-tube, the more they will expect that it can be their reality as well.

---

Ted Mendham
www.rensport.net

Ted, did you read my Contact Us page on my new site? I'll post it in because you just described about 99% of the people who email me through nocoastmotorsports.net.

"Seriously, if you want to contact us to offer us a million dollar ride, or if you just want to be the seventeenth guy who just bought a new Evo or STI and wants to know if our team will sponsor you because you're totally going to beat Travis Pastrana, or if you just want to tell us how much we suck and how slowly we drive and how annoying our webpage is and how yellow is a stupid fucking color and why would anyone in their right mind use it for the bulk of their text anyhow, here's how to get a hold of us via email."

Mexico has a good series and low costs. I still want to do the 3 day, 160 mile, $350 entry fee tarmac event in Guadalajara.

---

Grant Hughes

Greg,

Yes, regional events, especially here in the lower midwest are much needed. There are generally regional events run concurrently with national events, but I understand regional only events are what you are looking for. Also, BEER, JVL is C-O-R-R-E-C-T, B double E, double R U-N, beer run. Socialization is also a key point. Your idea of a street party sounds great. Rally Tennessee had that vibe to it at the after event party. Not so sure about the alcohol being served out in the open like that, probably something to be worked out with the local politicians. I like the way you're thinking. I'll even put a plug in for Rallye de Paris, it's in Texas, but if you've any family down that way, kill two birds with one stone.

---

It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favour of vegetarianism, while the wolf remains of a different opinion.
William Ralph Inge

TANSTAAFL



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/06/2008 05:32PM by Vorpal_Rally.

This can't be the first time rally has seen a lull in the US, is it? If not, please gray beards, tell me how you saved it before so I can get cracking.

tedm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am not sure it can be saved in the US. Canada
> is doing much better. I know nothing about the
> Mexican scene.
>
> The sooner RA, it's way out of control BS-Hype
> machine, and the parasitic morons that follow it,
> IMPLODES, the sooner real US hardcore rallyists
> can go back out in the woods and race.
>
> I don't need x-games or tv coverage or the world
> wide web to go rallying. US rallying did better
> when it flew below the radar. Greedy people, who
> naturally want increased sponsorship and
> recognition for their hobby, consitantly do a
> dis-service to the sport in the US.
>
> US event organizors have no way to police their
> events from today's gen-x wannabees in their blue
> WRXs (with full worx ebay decal package) who think
> they are as gifted behind the wheel as Petter and
> that public roads are just another video game.
> The more that these idiots see 43 and 199 beating
> up on Colin McRae on TV or You-tube, the more they
> will expect that it can be their reality as well.

ok, the fact that you feel that way is all fine and dandy, but that isnt what i asked for.

what do you think we could do to help rally?

i know JB and DCH personally and they are not motivated by greed to organize rallying. DCH has a "day job" to satisfy the need for greed.

back on topic:

i think Max Attack is awesome for 2wd rallying. grassroots 2wd rallying is the key to the survival of the sport. high profile awd rallying is the key to the success of the series. i think they both need each other to thrive and grow.

travis and VSC get the public's attention and then the grassroots guys hook the people on an empotional level.

another dream that i have is that for every national crew in the US there would be 10 regional crews chomping at the bit to run as many events as possible.

we need to set up a Himes W.A.R.T. at every single rally!

Rally needs both:

Small cheap regionals. One day events for the guy that has to work all day Friday and then be back home in time to do laundry and get a good night's sleep for Monday. Lots of these - 6 to 8 a year at least. Cheap cheap cheap - no trophies, no banquets, no notes, no frills. Class winners get an extra slice of pizza and a bottle of the GOOD beer. Car needs to be in good mechanical shape, but car lot numbers are fine and who cares if you don't have the right backers? The biggest expense for competitors should be the tow rig's gas.

Big Blow-Out Events. Fewer of these, maybe 3 a year. The Max-Attack Balls-To-The-Wall If-I-wad-It-up-I-have-Four-Months-To-Rebuild it events. 2 or 3 day event, banquet, nice trophies. Stage notes. Maybe recce. Cars should look good. Photo ops. Press Stages. Spectators. Yadda yadda.




One of the problems with organizing the former is that you need to be in a good geographical location relative to your competitors. It's no good offering a $200 rally if it costs competitors $2000 just to get there. The other thing is that those event CAN'T be car-breakers. Once again, it's no good offering a $200 rally if everyone knows it's going to cost $2000 in repairs.

DooWops is about the most ideal regional event I can think of, but I don't think it can be held as a standard. It's more of a paragon: Ray's has access to resources and close ties to the community that other organizers don't (or that would take a long time to build up) AND he's got a couple of big cities just around the corner to draw competitors from.

---

Self-righteous douche canoe

hoche Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> DooWops is about the most ideal regional event I
> can think of, but I don't think it can be held as
> a standard. It's more of a paragon: Ray's has
> access to resources and close ties to the
> community that other organizers don't (or that
> would take a long time to build up) AND he's got a
> couple of big cities just around the corner to
> draw competitors from.
>
this is where the rally clubs that are active in the community could really be an advantage.

if you want cheap food avalable at the rally call the local 4-H clubs and have them set up a foodstand.

the rally club could organize a fundraiser for a favorite charity in the local area.

make it so the rally club does more than see each other at events. make them active parts of the community. if the locals begin to get to know the loonies blasting down the county roads once a month they may actually be excited to see them.

unfortunately there are some parts of the country that are better suited for rallying than others.

i know that if we ever leave the area proximity to rallying will be a factor in deciding where we live.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------


another way cost is saved is if the same few sets of roads are used all season there should really only need to be one set of route pages needed.

and no i dont think a spiral bound book would be needed for a low cost event with a long stage run 3 times.

these events should be tulip events that allow teams to make their own notes in the route book as the compete.

hell, let them use them over again at the next event.




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/06/2008 09:41PM by Greg Donovan.

Drawing from a famous movie, slightly modified.

"The problem with Rally-America, is that its full of Americans!"

---

Kirk Coughlin
Woodbury, MN and River Falls, WI

Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.