How would YOU "save" Rallying in N.A.?

darkknight9 Wrote:
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> Drawing from a famous movie, slightly modified.
>
> "The problem with Rally-America, is that its full
> of Americans!"
>
>
>
> Kirk Coughlin
> Hudson, WI
> 1991 Ford Escort GT
> Prepping for Club level dates in 2007
>
> Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis
> telum est.


ha! good one.




Rally sprints seem to be nice middle ground. Low key, one day, no notes (except ones you make), hell....no co-driver if you want. Just NASA safety requirements.

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Jon Burke - KI6LSW
Blog: http://psgrallywrx.blogspot.com/

Well, personally I built a couple of cars to be used as rentals, hoping to serve the beginning, budding rally enthusiasts. Unfortunately the build or buy mentality has overwhelmed the rental aspect of it. If you don't crash a car, you could go for a season before spending 1/2 as much as it cost to build. Although, fuel prices for towes and a lack of "local" events in CA. makes it difficult without towing 500 miles each way to events. Also spent a grip of cash to build up 6 miles of rally roads on my property in the hope of running multiple events, using it for testing, filming, and a year round rally school. So far we have tentatively planned one NASA "National" event, three regionals and possibly 4 rally sprints for 2009 but the thirst for power in CA may destroy my rally ambitions.

Also, there is not alot of support so far for the track. It may be the economy but I would have thought alot of people would be interested in using our location and just haven't seen the enthusiasm I had expected.

gpbullock Wrote:
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> Well, personally I built a couple of cars to be
> used as rentals, hoping to serve the beginning,
> budding rally enthusiasts. Unfortunately the build
> or buy mentality has overwhelmed the rental aspect
> of it. If you don't crash a car, you could go for
> a season before spending 1/2 as much as it cost to
> build. Although, fuel prices for towes and a lack
> of "local" events in CA. makes it difficult
> without towing 500 miles each way to events. Also
> spent a grip of cash to build up 6 miles of rally
> roads on my property in the hope of running
> multiple events, using it for testing, filming,
> and a year round rally school. So far we have
> tentatively planned one NASA "National" event,
> three regionals and possibly 4 rally sprints for
> 2009 but the thirst for power in CA may destroy my
> rally ambitions.
>
> Also, there is not alot of support so far for the
> track. It may be the economy but I would have
> thought alot of people would be interested in
> using our location and just haven't seen the
> enthusiasm I had expected.


Mark, just wanted to say THANKS for your efforts. I had a great time at your rally sprint this spring. I hope you're venue is still available next year, if so, I plan on renting it for a testing ground for my rally build; maybe go in on a full weekend with some DirtyImpreza guys (or anyone else) for a suspension test and tune session. Just wish I was closer.

What's the timeline on that solar power plant thing anyway? usually stuff like that can take years, no?

that reminds me, I have some video to burn and get to you....

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Jon Burke - KI6LSW
Blog: http://psgrallywrx.blogspot.com/

I'm thinking it will be a year. Everyone seems to be pushing this thru pretty hard. A friend of mine who happens to be the project lead on this project works for the BLM and he's stated that he's retiring in a year and hopes to have this project wrapped up by then. That said, he told me that the multi-national corp. doing this project can't even do this without owning our land. They are going to be rerouting the huge wash that you run in and out of for 3-4 miles, including our property. That said, CA has determined that 20% of all power used in CA must be solar and/or wind by 2010, and 30% by 2013. The article I read (when I found out we were probably screwed) said that it is a two year construction project, so that said, it's anybody's guess. My position is that we will continue to run events, filming, testing etc. until someone writes a check.

Eddie Fiorelli Wrote:
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> This can't be the first time rally has seen a lull
> in the US, is it? If not, please gray beards, tell
> me how you saved it before so I can get cracking.
>
>
I am trying to figure out this 'lull' thing, Eddie.

Participant numbers: The 'peak' about 6 years back is the exception, not the rule. There were a few events way back that would have 50-80 entrants (like STPR and POR and Sunriser and HIS), but the rest would have the numbers you see typical now. That was pretty normal during the 3 decades I have been involved.

Lessee, for number of events:
In the 70's there were about 15-16 or so rallies maximum nationwide between NARRA and SCCA. That dropped to maybe a dozen right after NARRA went away. Then it slowly grew with the addition of the divisional level of events in the 80's. It has grown in fits and starts. Where are we with 'national' and regional total number of events? A bit over 20?

How was it 'saved'? I dunno, I didn't 'save' it (nor ever saw it 'saved' in the last 30 years, IMO). I just participated and stayed interested, like hundreds of others. Unless it really goes pro with someone writing a big check (in which case, BTW, most of us here will will be 'out'), it'll keep going along on the passions of those organizing events, and volunteeing to work them, and those building cars and paying the $$ to enter events. As an amateur/volunteer driven activity, it going to see ups and downs, based on what time and $$ contribute to it. If you want to keep the amateur competition aspect of this sport going, expect the ups and downs.

Regards,
Mark B.

EDIT: I forgot to add: HOW ABOUT THOSE RED WINGS !!!???!!! WOO HOO!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/07/2008 01:23PM by starion887.

Personally I think with the increased exposure and availability of rally information and news via the internet and web forums, I'd have expected an increase in the number of participants since the 90s and early 2000s. But we haven't and that I blame soley on Subaru. People see that they need to build a Subaru (or Evo I suppose) if they want any chance at winning and when they realize that if they want to be able to win with it then need to be willing to part with 30-50K to build it.

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Grant Hughes

NoCoast Wrote:
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> Personally I think with the increased exposure and
> availability of rally information and news via the
> internet and web forums, I'd have expected an
> increase in the number of participants since the
> 90s and early 2000s. But we haven't and that I
> blame soley on Subaru. People see that they need
> to build a Subaru (or Evo I suppose) if they want
> any chance at winning and when they realize that
> if they want to be able to win with it then need
> to be willing to part with 30-50K to build it.

So rather than becoming PARTICIPANTS or NEW BLOOD, they looked at the spectacle and then changed the channel or clicked on the next shiney thing.

They are good CONSUMERS now, and that is the WHOLE IDEA.

They don't call it a "consumer capitalist" economy fer nuthin ya know!
>
> Grant Hughes
> www.nocoastmotorsports.net
> Denver, CO

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

How about make damn good and sure that rally and TV stay the hell away from each other?

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Monika Hawkinson
Seattle, WA

$30-50K to build it and then build it again and again, and don't forget the $500K to run it.

I see a lot of folks beg, borrow and steal the $ to build that dream car and then realize that they may only be able to run one or two events.........

maybe in 5 years after they pay off the credit cards. And, by then the car will be 100% obsolete.

look at the used rally car for sale ads. Lot's of them, still don't have a logbook or say ran only one event in '06 or something. Pretty sad. Sorta like the used sailboat for sale ads.

And disappearing a million or so civil litigation attorneys might not hurt either.


so says the old tedneck who is dusting off someone else's POS rally car to run his 68th stage rally (Baie). Beats waiting on tables, bro. :-)

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Ted Mendham
www.rensport.net

In my opinion it's simple: rallying needs to be cheaper, end of story. Make it sustainable so people can rally as long as they want to without breaking the bank.

Make the regional and local championships 2wd normally aspirated only. Other cars could run, but not get championship points. Make the AWD championships national only. In addition, entry fees for AWD cars should be higher than for 2wd cars.

All rules should be oriented to keeping costs down. The cost to competitors should be the primary, overriding concern for any sanctioning body, with some exceptions for safety, when there are truly effective things that can be done to reduce real and likely risks. The second main concern of sanctioning bodies should be to keep competition as tight as possible.

Forget all the high-end promotion, media consultants, etc. All that that does is make it look like we've hit the big time, so people start raising their prices to rallies and rallyists, as well as attract unwanted attention from politicians, activists, etc.

The national championship should be pared down. Any US rally championship should have no more than 6 events total. Check any large country out there - by and large, most of them have a maximum of 6 events in their national championship, even in countries where rallying is more popular than in the US.

Like someone mentioned above, single-venue rallies would be very helpful as well. Single-venue events are a staple of the rally scene in the UK from what I understand because they are cheap and practical, and could serve the same function here.

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-----------------------------
http://www.max-attack.com

"Forget all the high-end promotion, media consultants, etc. All that that does is make it look like we've hit the big time, so people start raising their prices to rallies and rallyists, as well as attract unwanted attention from politicians, activists, etc."

Bravo, that's how I feel but couldn't put into words as well.

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Ted Mendham
www.rensport.net

Sofa King Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
...Is there any
> cake under the icing?
>
>
> Kevin Hawkinson


Cake and beer do not work for me.

edit - add...
(I don't eat a lot of cake)





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/09/2008 05:25PM by randyzimmer.

Shenan Wrote:
> Forget all the high-end promotion, media
> consultants, etc. All that that does is make it
> look like we've hit the big time, so people start
> raising their prices to rallies and rallyists, as
> well as attract unwanted attention from
> politicians, activists, etc.

Do you really think that you can stay below the radar of the people who don't want rallies? Do you know what it takes to get permission to use the roads that rallies are held on? Just that process exposes the event to politicians and activists.

A properly run rally is not subject to unwanted attention from politicians, activists, etc. because it is safely run and brings benefit (such as economic benefit) to the community and the community welcomes the rally. If the community is not interested in the rally, it doesn't take many vocal opponents to shut it down. If the community is behind the rally, it does.

alan

full disclosure of costs and revenue from the event.

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-Mark
www.nocoastmotorsports.net

Mark Wrote:
> full disclosure of costs and revenue from the event.

Meh.

1) I don't know how this would "save" anything. (And I mean in the sense of the thread title.) One could guarantee that lots of folks who have never volunteered at a rally would offer their "expert" opinion on how costs could be cut. A typical rally for me has only about 30 lines in the budget/list of expenses. The top 6 or so make up 80% of the budget and are fixed cost. I don't really need to know that Al's Survey Supply on Jones St in Albuquerque sells tomato stakes for 45 cents less than I buy them from at Lowes down the street.

2) Knowing the profit margin of any particular event is immaterial since it has nothing to do with whether you can afford to attend. If the rally is $500, does it make a difference if the rally keeps $1 of that for next year or $300 for next year? On all other products you buy, cars, lunch, DVD players, you make a choice to attend or not based on price, not on profit margin.

3) All rallies, WHEN YOU INCLUDE THE LABOR OF THE ORGANIZERS, lose money. Try to hire someone to organize generic events with the following characteristics:
-ability to work with multiple governmental agencies
-ability to recruit volunteers
-write proposals
-manage budgets
-do web site creation
-manage technical documents
-manage people
-design and build a variety of physical equipment
and on top of that, ultimately take the liability for the event, oh, and front 10 to 20 grand.
See if you can hire someone like that for less than $60,000 a year. So, that's about $30 an hour.

The first year I organized Sandblast Rally, it took me 450 hours. That rally "made" $200. I had to front $15,000 or so on credit cards. So for the pleasure of sitting in a building all weekend listening to problems on Net Control, not seeing a single car on stage, I was "compensated" a little under 50 cents an hour for three months of my life. It's not hard to imagine why I stopped tracking how many hours I spent organizing rallies.

There's only one reason to see the budget of a rally: to decide for yourself if organizing rallies is profitable enough as a "business" that you want to get into organizing for yourself.

Potential future organizers, if you would like sample event budgets, please call me up and discuss your rally plans.

Cheers,
Anders

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.