some good roll cage buidling guides

picked up some/all of the plate material - decided to go with the minumum 1/8
mild steel - its 70 cents a pound at my local place in petaluma, good times at the steel mill. tubes will be delivered tomorrow and will sit around until saturday - when I have all day with the bender

Im not sure what to do with this sill plate or whatever you wanna call it - it is structural in a limited sense and would be nifty to weld another tube along the top of it and side of the tubing to the edge of it? somehow incorporate the design or should I get rid of it? I almost did today, except couldnt find that second bit to hold down the cut-off wheel. probably a blessing ( I have a feeling regulation would have me leave it in place for that car) ???
scrutineers I need you here

Just remember , watch the wind direction before pissing....

So it doesn't take but a few seconds on the 'net to find that CroMo is either oxy/acet welded or TIGed. No MIG is mentioned anywhere. Seems that under .120 it can be used in a normalized condition without heat treating. Also seems the little pretty welds are a cause of potential failure.

Lots of good race car specific reading here http://www.netwelding.com/Welding%204130.htm also info on mild steel http://www.netwelding.com/Welding_Race_Cars.htm

Lina, don't let the boyz confuse you. Michel will keep you on course quite reliably.

Gene, Im not confused - i have all the right materials mild steel, yes I know.
my post specifically asking whether I need to leave in that sheet metal reinforcement plate or if I can remove (see above pictures) - thanks tho

Ok, King Contrary Man. Everything is an argument with you, even when someone is basically agreeing with you. You're just not grasping what I'm saying. Never mind.

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Littlelina
Gene, Im not confused - i have all the right materials mild steel, yes I know.
my post specifically asking whether I need to leave in that sheet metal reinforcement plate or if I can remove (see above pictures) - thanks tho

Lina,
I didn't see your post when I posted. You can never post relevant questions when an argument is taking place , even tho it is your thread...shame on you !

The plate you are refering to is just to hold the rear seat up. Most cars have the whole floor step up there. Yours is a bit different. You can remove it or incorporate it, which ever you builder wants to do. It is not of any significance structure wise.

I would probably leave it in place, cut the outside 4 inches down to sill level and the build a box off the front side for the cage legs to sit on.

I also like to run a tube across the tunnel area to give more support to the main hoop in a side impact. You could run one right at the top of that plate and stitch it across there.

Thanks for being patient with the fussing. We've had people just drop out in the past when threads get hi-jacked.

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heymagic

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Littlelina
Gene, Im not confused - i have all the right materials mild steel, yes I know.
my post specifically asking whether I need to leave in that sheet metal reinforcement plate or if I can remove (see above pictures) - thanks tho

Lina,
I didn't see your post when I posted. You can never post relevant questions when an argument is taking place , even tho it is your thread...shame on you !

The plate you are refering to is just to hold the rear seat up. Most cars have the whole floor step up there. Yours is a bit different. You can remove it or incorporate it, which ever you builder wants to do. It is not of any significance structure wise.

I would probably leave it in place, cut the outside 4 inches down to sill level and the build a box off the front side for the cage legs to sit on.

I also like to run a tube across the tunnel area to give more support to the main hoop in a side impact. You could run one right at the top of that plate and stitch it across there.

Thanks for being patient with the fussing. We've had people just drop out in the past when threads get hi-jacked.

There's no argument Gene.
Some people wrote some nonsense and even if the conclusion in the end was right, the body of what they were writing flies in the face of things they themselves have been looking at as long as they have had eyes.
But they were writing shit they've read rather than believing what they have seen---even if the may not have understood what they have seen.

Most people eventually realise that much, possibly most of the important crap they know came into their heads in oblique ways.
And that the actual connections that made the info valuable was made inside their head..

But with the rise of forums, everybody wants an answer to everything, they want it to make them happy and as we see periodically they want it delivered in the way they demand...

Lina seems to have sense, she can probably distinguish between specific do this type stuff and general "garage talk".

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Can you put the sill bar between the front and rear boxes? And with RA where do you mean no V bars? In the back stays or doors?

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heymagic
I would probably leave it in place, cut the outside 4 inches down to sill level and the build a box off the front side for the cage legs to sit on..

in lookin at her pics, you mean horizontal from door 4 inches inward? now would you build the box over that or use that as part of the box?

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heymagic
I also like to run a tube across the tunnel area to give more support to the main hoop in a side impact. You could run one right at the top of that plate and stitch it across there.

now when i hear someone say tunnel i think of center tunnel. are you refering to down where the blue cable is running?

Sorry, just trying to do some learning among all this mumbo jumbo of smart folk.

no that sill bar/sheet steel is pretty sturdy and custom fit over the hump and plug welded all along the floor, so I wouldnt want to remove it only to put it somewhere else. I like Genes idea of trimming out the ends and use / incorporate into the main roll bar -
I have 3 years of formal automotive collision repair schooling & 2.5 years of welding and machine shop and about a 1 year of auto tech so I do have an ability to distinguish bull shit from good advice, but I do enjoy a good laugh and not put off by shop "discussions" - I just want my cage to pass tech (Im going to be doing most if not all of the welding personally ( I cant afford to pay someone to weld in a cage for me, so Im gonna have to do it myself... seeing as how I have to work for a living) and go ahead and tell me "you can't or you shouldnt" because that just makes me want to do it more, and better!! pretty soon, you'll all be calling me to weld in your cages

no that sill bar/sheet steel is pretty sturdy and custom fit over the hump and plug welded all along the floor, so I wouldnt want to remove it only to put it somewhere else. I like Genes idea of trimming out the ends and use / incorporate into the main roll bar -
I have 3 years of formal automotive collision repair schooling & 2.5 years of welding and machine shop and about a 1 year of auto tech so I do have an ability to distinguish bull shit from good advice, but I do enjoy a good laugh and not put off by shop "discussions" - I just want my cage to pass tech
Im going to be doing most if not all of the welding personally

Vbars : I refer to the vbars in the main hoop. Don't do it,,anyone, no,no,no.


BMW: the rear seat support is a tad higher than the top of the sills. I would cut that down, inward, enough to build a box there even with the top of the sill. The hoop needs to be mounted very near that cross plate to be in the correct position.

Tunnel : the tunnel for the driveline or exhaust that runs down the middle of most cars. I like to have a cross bar down low, maybe welded to the tunnel between the main hoop legs. Not required just seems like there should be something there.

Pretty hard to put a transverse bar in the front and FIA prohibits cross bars below the steering column. That is due to knee injuries tho.

Sorry too early..sill bars can be between the front and rear boxes as long as it is in plane with the cage legs.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/17/2011 11:10AM by heymagic.

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Littlelina
no that sill bar/sheet steel is pretty sturdy and custom fit over the hump and plug welded all along the floor, so I wouldnt want to remove it only to put it somewhere else. I like Genes idea of trimming out the ends and use / incorporate into the main roll bar

looks like its just stamped steel. so cutting it wouldnt affect its sturdiness?

what about trimming it all the way across and spot welding a small piece of steel rod atop for space and non-sharp edge? or would that be wasted work?

yes, notice the folded lip over the top and the base is also folded in the opposite direction = strength. while it is just "stamped steel" it is pretty strong - thats why those grooves are added also. I wouldnt cut the top off because then it would make it just flop around in the wind (literally)- i would leave it intact as much as possible and weld on both sides when adding a ~1 inch bar across the top of the thing

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Littlelina
yes, notice the folded lip over the top and the base is also folded in the opposite direction = strength. while it is just "stamped steel" it is pretty strong - thats why those grooves are added also. I wouldnt cut the top off because then it would make it just flop around in the wind (literally)- i would leave it intact as much as possible and weld on both sides when adding a ~1 inch bar across the top of the thing

ooohhh......lightbulb.

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Littlelina
yes, notice the folded lip over the top and the base is also folded in the opposite direction = strength. while it is just "stamped steel" it is pretty strong - thats why those grooves are added also. I wouldnt cut the top off because then it would make it just flop around in the wind (literally)- i would leave it intact as much as possible and weld on both sides when adding a ~1 inch bar across the top of the thing

Hey you're pretty sharp for a gurl..

Seriously, you have a fantastic grasp of what needs to be done. I wish all our noobs were as sharp. You'll be just fine with the cage I'm thinking.