Rally America Serious Problems

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DaveK
[What about folks who've upgraded internals on an old beat up looking motor? P
Dave

SSHHHH!!!
(I'm doing several sets of long rods and shorter---LIGHTER---pistons for some "Cl;assic " cars in some country far away where they allegedly are 'spossed to be "FIA Appendix K' period gen-you-whine.. so shhhhh!)

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
DaveK
People like to tinker and upgrade when things break.

IMO, creating a rule set that bans some of that out and makes your competitor pool smaller isn't a great idea

The guys that like to tinker don't rally as it is. I don't want a field of guys that like to tinker. That isn't sustainable. It leads to burn outs and life problems. You are unique in that Allison appears to be 100% supportive and your able to balance work and racing. I can tell you if I spent the amount of time tinkering that you do I would not have a happy wife. I know of a local STI that one major reason for him selling it was wife problems due to all the time spent working on the rally car were nearly costing him his relationship. I want guys that want to race rally cars 5-6 weekends a year.

I won't be banning any cars though so don't get your panties too bunched up.

Unlimited rulesets, being told their car isn't good for rallying on the second through 84th response on the rallying forums and then being classed with a $60k R2 or 300 hp M3 if they do persevere has a much worse effect than telling them they have to remain on stock engine.

I've known more people that don't rally due to it being too expensive than that do rally. The too expensive comes from distance, entry fees, car classing, and perception of what it takes spending wise to be competitive. How many rallyists are racing in Chump/Lemons in lieu of rallying because it is more affordable. Dave Coleman, Tim Taylor, Andrew Steere, Brooks, McGuire, and more.

John, the Merkur is going back together slowly. Few things here and there. Sean has started the chassis loom, I have a new engine loom. Ironically I was telling the story of the every single engine connector broke except one injector plus last night. And how many were held on for the four races I did with it with electrical tape. And that I want to do other events like Idaho but am not going to spend the amount of money required to do a distant event with a car that is held together with electrical tape. Zip ties maybe, but not electrical tape.

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Grant Hughes

Quote
NoCoast
Unlimited rulesets, being told their car isn't good for rallying on the second through 84th response on the rallying forums and then being classed with a $60k R2 or 300 hp M3 if they do persevere has a much worse effect than telling them they have to remain on stock engine.

I see what you're getting at, but if you mandate stock engines...someone will go buy an E46 and rally it. Some knucklehead is always going to find "the" car for the rule set. I think starting with a $500 chassis and upgrading over the years (started my build in 2009?) isn't something to discourage. I haven't run a rally with it yet, but have run 2 seasons of hillclimbs, so its not like it's just been parked in a corner collecting dust.

Good to hear we'll see progress on the Merkur soon, can't wait to compare notes on how many spectators came up after a run and complained about getting nailed with rocks.

Dave

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DaveK
I see what you're getting at, but if you mandate stock engines...someone will go buy an E46 and rally it. Some knucklehead is always going to find "the" car for the rule set. I think starting with a $500 chassis and upgrading over the years (started my build in 2009?) isn't something to discourage. I haven't run a rally with it yet, but have run 2 seasons of hillclimbs, so its not like it's just been parked in a corner collecting dust.

Good to hear we'll see progress on the Merkur soon, can't wait to compare notes on how many spectators came up after a run and complained about getting nailed with rocks.

E46 rally car would be fine with me. Then everyone will flock to the E46 as the best car and we can build rally specific parts for them and retire to Barbados within a decade.

I think part of it depends on the length and character of the road. For anything involving CHCA style roads there has to be seperation as the finish order in rally car class is nearly perfectly lined up with HP. Participation awards?

With you're clean road racing lines do you actually spray gravel?

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Grant Hughes

Trying to come up with a bunch of classes to keep people from getting butthurt once they are beaten by a "better car" isn't going to help. In the US you are getting beaten by a better driver. Period.

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MConte05
Trying to come up with a bunch of classes to keep people from getting butthurt once they are beaten by a "better car" isn't going to help. In the US you are getting beaten by a better driver. Period.

Buncha classes? I'm talking two classes total for local championships. 2WD and Open Light.

Think of offroad Jeeps. The gay Jeep group locally has over 50 members and is one of more active automotive groups apparently. I'm sure there are thousands of guys locally, new Toyota off road shop just opened near our shop also. Tons of small Jeep companies. Aside from the fact that there are 10,000 miles of awesome Jeep roads nearby, why is it that people interested in offroad stuff flock to Jeep stuff. I even know one potential rallyist that has decided instead of rallying, he's going to build up his offroad truck (I think it's a Blazer maybe?) I see those guys and figure that at least 10-20% of them would probably rally instead of it was more accessible and affordable.

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Grant Hughes

The largest car counts at your local short track are with car rules that limit cost.

Grant is correct it is perception that you need go fast parts. Problem is most people dont build cars if they dont feel they can be competative. I dont agree SP is the way to go. Take the driver out of the picture when building a rules package. Open class cost less then SP for the same speed. Yes open class can cost 10 times SP but it doesnt have to.

Have 3 simple classes open,modified and stock.

beginner class. Stock meaning just that totaly stock not even an aftermarket strut.

2nd class modified. This class you can swap out arms, struts, engines, brakes with minor rules. stock trans.Pretty open other then stock suspension mounting points.No carbon fiber, No external resavore,canister,hydrolic bump struts allowed. So basicly the bilstien,jvab stuff only.

3rd class open as rally aready has. Go for it!

All cars run for overall positions and class positions. So 3 classes all running for 2 points rallies per event. Over all and what ever class your car falls under. No different class for 2wd and awd.

All cars have a weight rule based on what class they fall under and how many wheels are driven.

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First rally 2013
Rally car type AWD subaru
Total rallies as driver 6
Total rally cars built 2
Total rally cars caged 3
Total rally cars repaired from offs 4
Total years racing exp other then rally 19 yrs
Like 31motorsports on FB!
Check out 31motor sales on ebay for used Subaru parts

Stock or Production classes should be a complete non-starter without manufacturer involvement. There is nothing cheap about running a stock car in rally. It is cheaper to run in a modified class.


Sure, it sucks to feel you were beaten by someone with a bigger wallet or with more experience or with a 'faster' car. But there are just as many examples of people being beat by people with POS cars and little experience. There are no classes that can be invented to prevent this and furthermore, there is no amount of trophies that will persuade those with delicate egos to stick around. They will still lament the impression that they were outspent by others even in different classes.

As an example: Back in 1999 or 2000, I did the DC area SCCA Rallycrosses. Otis Dimiters (before he began to stage rally) was the clear reigning fastest guy out there and showed up in the nicest car and drove all up and down the east coast dominating rallycrosses. There was talk around the events that clearly indicated that many racers felt he was somehow buying a championship and if only they had his resources they would be just as fast if not faster. I began setting fastest times of the day and often beat Otis outright in my completely stock $800 1987 VW GTI with 1.8L 16v with Autopower rollbar. I came to learn quickly that I was becoming the recipient of the same kind of scorn as Otis Rumors floated around that I had a special supercharger on the car along with a limited slip differential and other mystery modifications and that I refused to open the hood for others to inspect the car (all, of course, untrue). People WANT to believe that they are being out spent or that others are cheating as it confirms their self-assessment. There is no way to avoid escalation of spending among these people without something like a claimer class.

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One. Class -- 2WD

www.quantumrallysport.com

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Quantum-Rally-Sport/281129179600?ref=nf

But Josh, your car is SUPER FAST!

I compared in car once, and you had me by ten seconds at the end of the first straight.

Granted, it was Brockway, and I didn't have second gear...but your car was WAY faster than mine.

Let's put it as clear as possible: stock classes are for faggots.
Posers
pussies.

Trophy hunters. Wankers. Liars. Cheaters. Scoundrels.

AUTO-Crossers..

I do NOT want to attract to the sport that sort of person we can call
"The Arch-typical Autocrosser'.

EVERY single one I have ever encountered were ALL cheats, liars, posers, pitiful creatures that were such losers in life that they would do ANYTHING to win a cheesy trophy---even if there was nobody else in class, they would still cheat.

Fuck that.

Stop suggesting STOCK shit.

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
fliz
But Josh, your car is SUPER FAST!

I compared in car once, and you had me by ten seconds at the end of the first straight.

Granted, it was Brockway, and I didn't have second gear...but your car was WAY faster than mine.

Different car. This was in 1999 or 2000 ina 1.8L stock 16v so 120 crank hp max with stock transmission.

The car you ran against at LSPR had 160hp 4.24 R&P and weighted 2320lbs

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One. Class -- 2WD

www.quantumrallysport.com

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/pages/Quantum-Rally-Sport/281129179600?ref=nf

Anyone that thinks Josh had a secret turbocharger in there is ridiculous.



Why would he need one when he was storing high-pressure NOS in the cage bars?

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

I have to agree with JVL. Besides, how many cars actually stay stock after a rally or two even for the guys who are on a budget? The smart guys get their first rally out of the way in a nearly stock car, then they have 2-3 months or longer before their next race. By that time they have already identified what they need to build up on the car (better suspension usually, better tires, etc.) and boom, already out of a stock class.

The "stock class" would be people coming and going every event.

Honestly I think the way the classes are setup right now is pretty good. At least in the midwest it really is just 2WD, Open Light, or Open in the regionals.

If it's cost control you want and not some "save the newbie from too much powah" That's simple: Claimer class. For Grant's Local series $8500 2wd and $12,000 Open light. Anyone within 33% of your finishing position can claim. You get to keep seats, belts, intercom, rally computer.

Regional $12,000 2wd, $15,500 Open light.

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Anders Green
Anyone that thinks Josh had a secret turbocharger in there is ridiculous.



Why would he need one when he was storing high-pressure NOS in the cage bars?

I KNEW it!! THAT'S why I have never beaten him heads up. I am so getting my checkbook out.

Thanks
Brad