Rally America Serious Problems

Max Attack events used to drive me crazy as the order at the first service usually was pretty close to the final order. Some of the closer battles were often in the 6-10th position.

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Grant Hughes

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NoCoast
Max Attack events used to drive me crazy as the order at the first service usually was pretty close to the final order. Some of the closer battles were often in the 6-10th position.

And those guys paid their entry too.

It ain't over till they decide its over

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
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I have always thought that TSD was where the really epic endurance rallying should be. I wonder if the near death of TSD has helped lead to sprint racing in the forest.
Anders - Does NRS sanction TSD events? Do TSD events even need sanctioning?

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Grant Hughes

I'll throw this out here and it could be removed just as fast. It's tough to come out in the open with a crowd like this, but here goes.

Great discussion about recruiting and keeping people in rally. It’s always interesting to see all the opinions and ideas that come forward.

As for me, I’m a nobody who has been reading special stage, anarchy, dirty impreza etc, for way over 10 years. I was even signed up on the rally email list way back when. From some point of view, I’m the guy who could possibly be in the rally type event target market. I’m a quattro guy who has always been interested in rally. I’ve owned and rebuilt a number of urquattros and wrx’s(even a blue one). I’ve helped design and build an urquattro that has run at PPIHC the past few years. I’m not big on official names, but I could be labeled the (co)crew chief for the effort. I’ve been involved with a group of friends for the past 20 years where we do a multiday private corporate rental at the Steamboat ice track and we go drive sideways. Attendees include a few old time SCCA rally guys including a friend who I think won PGT in the early 90’s. It’s been wonderful learning car control from these guys.

For the past 10-15 years, I’ve been formulating a plan where I might somehow get involved. Is it a huge dream of mine, nah, more like something to check off the bucket list. I’ve downloaded the rulebooks for FIA, RA, NASA, SCCA, CHCA, NORRA,for a great many years. I’ve reviewed 30 years of event results on rally racing news. I’ve reviewed the CHCA results. I’ve watched videos of rallycross and CHCA runs on utube. I’ve been to the parc ferme at the cog rally. I’ve looked over the event pictures on commie cozzy’s site. I’ve read the buy vs build threads. I’ve run the numbers for a WRX build and various Audi builds. Being on the Colorado front range, I’ve created spreadsheets to understand the all-in costs for attending the local rallycrosses, CHCA events and the closest stage rallies. I’ve calculated $/minute of seat time, tow costs for various events and seat time/tow time ratios. As others have mentioned, the entry costs to the rally world are quite high, in my case buying a 5-15k prepped car to pursue this rally idea is out of the question. There are higher priority items in the family budget. For me the goal was to identify a way to get involved for the least amount of recurring and non-recurring costs. I think I have done my homework.

Then along comes a certain craigslist listing, my friend and I did a quick consult and the ad was removed in 15 minutes. Money was sent and the deal was finalized. We performed the extraction of a non-running car from an alley garage in central Denver. Sometimes you do get a break and now we had an Audi 80/90 quattro rally car(we actually have 2, but that is another story) in our possession complete with title and logbook. This car fits well into my world, I know the older quattro drivetrain and how it handles. I have a garage full of spare parts and wheels and I understand Audi electricals. Over the past year with the help of a few friends, we have the car running and driving. Next on the list is to do a thorough review and inspection of the complete car. I need to bring the brakes back, I need to go through and fix a few vacuum leaks and understand the electrical system design. I’ve done the research on who built the car and when it was raced. I’ve talked with Constantine M as he had worked on the car at some point. It’s nothing special but it is a running logbooked scca rally car.

So now that I have a rally car, it’s time to figure what I can do with it. I know the belts and extinguishers are out of date and the main hoop is 1.5 vs 1.75. It needs new padding too. A recage is not on the list for this shell. I am willing to add diagonals and gussets as needed. Before I spend money I need to understand what my options are with the minimum of modifications/changes. It looks like I can bring it as–is to an SCCA rallycross. Next up would be a CHCA event. Checking those rules, it looks like I would need to get the windows tinted and arm nets installed. I see talk of “local and/or regional” type events, which could be interesting, but they don’t exist at this time. As for RA or NASA, heading off on a 1k mile tow is not in the cards at this point. The historic class could fit my desire and car. I have a turbo car, no competition license, no coefficients and no competition experience. I do have 20 years of experience and over a 1000 miles of driving sideways in turbo awd cars in the low Cf conditions at Steamboat, at least I have that going for me. At a minimum, this car becomes a dedicated Georgetown lake, Steamboat ice track and mountain forest road thrash car.

I’ve got no dreams of being the next Ken Block, Sebastian, Hannu or Walter. I have no interest in trophies or ribbons. I just like to drive sideways and now that I have a car that is somewhat prepared for competition, I’d like to know what is out there and maybe give it a try. I view having a rally car as a tool that will allow me, my friends and maybe my kids to get out there, have some fun and create some new experiences. What say you anarchists? Don't beat me up too bad. You’ve got one looking at the bait but not on the hook. And sorry, you’re not getting my full name at this time.

Dave

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NoCoast
Anders - Does NRS sanction TSD events? Do TSD events even need sanctioning?

Yes we do.

Yes they do. (Well, the insurance that comes with it. *I* wouldn't put one on without insurance.)

But the truth is that the SCCA so heavily subsidizes their TSD costs, it's financially better to do it through them. Like, 75% less or so. No sweat of my back, it is what it is.

Anders

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

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john vanlandingham
...dayum, I didn't know that they were the only 2-3 participants in the whole fucking rally that counted for anything! I mean what is my major malfunction???!!!
1-2-3 is all decided! Who cares about the rest?

I can't speak for others, but that certainly ISN'T what I've said.

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First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

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john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

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Anders Green

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NoCoast
Anders - Does NRS sanction TSD events? Do TSD events even need sanctioning?

Yes we do.

Yes they do. (Well, the insurance that comes with it. *I* wouldn't put one on without insurance.)

But the truth is that the SCCA so heavily subsidizes their TSD costs, it's financially better to do it through them. Like, 75% less or so. No sweat of my back, it is what it is.

Any ballpark on what the SCCA sanction fee is? Biggest issue there is then everyone needs to be SCCA members. I suppose that could be the case with NASA too anyhow.

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Grant Hughes

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dbldmnd
I'll throw this out here and it could be removed just as fast. It's tough to come out in the open with a crowd like this, but here goes.

Great discussion about recruiting and keeping people in rally. It’s always interesting to see all the opinions and ideas that come forward.

Well, the CHCA rules say needs to be a 2005 or newer rulebook built car, which would thus be a grandfathered Appendix B car from the 2005 rulebook to be legal. You will have to have an SCCA or Rally America rulebook most likely. On the other hand, we want competitors in safe cars, not rules nazis. If you have an SCCA logbook you likely could get a RA logbook.

Good to know you are here. We are looking at having a local rally as soon as this spring. CORE is talking about buying a new grader and making a longer rally course 7-8 mile or so. You could run the car in the World Racing League 12 hour endurance race at High Plains Raceway.

Welcome. Where are you at in Denver area? We have shop nights most Tuesday nights and Saturdays at our shared rally shop. Denver has a great community and everyone is pretty close and good friends.

Congrats on the rally car! I am a big fan of rally Audis myself. You can make plenty of easy fun for Open Light though as you said turbo that's more open class, which due to diffs is at a disadvantage to the Subaru and Evos. I spent a year or so codriving in an Audi. Pick from our win in PPO in 2005 attached!

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Grant Hughes

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sackytar
Has anyone seen this? Thoughts?????????

http://openpaddock.net/2014/01/11/rally-america-serious-problems-ahead/

Kurt Spitzner had a "vision", or was it a psychotic hallucination, for SCCA PRO RALLY.

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NoCoast
Any ballpark on what the SCCA sanction fee is? Biggest issue there is then everyone needs to be SCCA members. I suppose that could be the case with NASA too anyhow.

Something like $7 a car, no memberhsip required I think.

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

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NoCoast
Any ballpark on what the SCCA sanction fee is? Biggest issue there is then everyone needs to be SCCA members. I suppose that could be the case with NASA too anyhow.

I had been paying attention to this a while ago, but my interest since has petered off...

I know at last year's convention, they decided to do a 1-year trial with a new fee structure - without requiring memberships (and/or free weekend memberships, however you want to say it).

last I knew, fee structure looked very similar to rallycross - once you got past the 10-15 car "minimum cost", you were looking at something like $15/car for sanction+insurance for a "regional" event.

as an aside, subscribing to the psuedo-official "SCCARoadRally" email list will likely smother any desire you have to organize a SCCA tsd.

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KF7RWG
http://www.utahrallygroup.com

Well, Rocky Mountain 2wd certainly wasn't decided in the first 100 miles. I was leading going into the last stage, where Taisto Heinonen squashed me like a bug.