Another RWD motor option, if you can make it fit.

With the casual measuring you are correct on it being to wide. But once you sit it in there it shocking fits into this perfect little spot. The key I found was using the earlier 2.2 heads. They are pretty compact and the valve covers only cave half the head.

I tried some dohc heads but they were just to big. They got in the way of all sorts of things, oh like the frame and the steering.

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"Rally racing makes a heroin addiction look like a vague craving for something salty"

Dayum, a few simple questions and you're acting all attacked. Using words like "defending". No you haven't been attacked, you've been asked in a normal curious way Why?
Asking why this versus why that is not attacking, this is not some punkk-ass pimple squeezer fan-boi forum where everybody is trying to establish their hierarchical niche position.
Its just seems like an odd choice.

And just for reference, the nice gearkit for T5 for any motor that makes any torque costs $380. has 2.95 first and some crazy overdrive like either 0.63 or 0.72.

That first, very similar to some of the nicer Subie boxes and the Evo-bitchi boxes , allows a shorter axle ratio and gives a useful first gear that'll get you to 40-43mph, and a shorter 4th for more yank (ie quicker back up to whatever speed we chicken out at, once we backed off at say 96mph)

In short: relax, we're just yakking....

(or tell us if anything other than "gee golly that's brilliant " is "an attack" you need to "defend yourself" against...)

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Pete, any more information on that mazda-subaru combination?

John, can you share a link for your $380 gear set for a T-5 or at least share what the other ratios are, just curious what you consider a good set of gear ratios?

Matt, So you are basically limited to a NA Subaru config in your application? Or is there room for the turbo hardware should you decide that it is not enough power?

had seen this on the ultimate subaru board and got me thinking about doing an ej22 or sohc 2.5 super seven +442. the vw microbus crowd sells a nice low profile sump for the ej's

I run my 2.2 Impreza out of oil all the time. Check the dipstick every few oil changes. It's always dry so I add another quart. I don't check it again cause it's probably still dry but if I add too much it just drips more on the ground and smokes worse at stop lights.

Maybe when the engine is built so well you don't need all that stuff you mentioned John.

I like the idea of a Subaru powered 4X4 Starlet for going four wheelin'.

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john vanlandingham
Dayum, a few simple questions and you're acting all attacked. Using words like "defending". No you haven't been attacked, you've been asked in a normal curious way Why?
Asking why this versus why that is not attacking, this is not some punkk-ass pimple squeezer fan-boi forum where everybody is trying to establish their hierarchical niche position.
Its just seems like an odd choice.

And just for reference, the nice gearkit for T5 for any motor that makes any torque costs $380. has 2.95 first and some crazy overdrive like either 0.63 or 0.72.

That first, very similar to some of the nicer Subie boxes and the Evo-bitchi boxes , allows a shorter axle ratio and gives a useful first gear that'll get you to 40-43mph, and a shorter 4th for more yank (ie quicker back up to whatever speed we chicken out at, once we backed off at say 96mph)

In short: relax, we're just yakking....

(or tell us if anything other than "gee golly that's brilliant " is "an attack" you need to "defend yourself" against...)

Andrew had real "just asking some questions", your first post included not only a negative toward the transmission choice but also the motor choice. Im pretty sure I didn't ask, hey find all the flaws of what I'm posting based on your opinions.

You know what, maybe a duratec motor is better. Can you show me proof of that? Because I can show you plenty of cases of a Subaru motor being damn solid. With all the "short comings" you claim the Subaru motor to have, it's just shocking how well it lives it's life just plugging away.

And john it's not so much that I fear criticism or everything I say has to be praised as being the best written words on the planet, but fuck, if it's not a Volvo, a t5, a duratec, or some long link suspension it must be utter shit.

you have made it almost to the point on here that if I don't agree with everything you say you are going to flame the shit out of me. And the real sad part is it works like clockwork, we just come to expect it now.

That being said, playing devils advocate is a good thing, but man you have a way of coming off as a sarcastic ass sometimes. And maybe you have no ill intentions with what you say, but if you haven't noticed yet, sarcasm doesn't translate via the Internet very well. And maybe I should pull my tampon out, but I know I'm not the only one that feels that way.

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"Rally racing makes a heroin addiction look like a vague craving for something salty"

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Andrew_Frick
Pete, any more information on that mazda-subaru combination?

John, can you share a link for your $380 gear set for a T-5 or at least share what the other ratios are, just curious what you consider a good set of gear ratios?

Matt, So you are basically limited to a NA Subaru config in your application? Or is there room for the turbo hardware should you decide that it is not enough power?

For the time being I'm limiting myself to NA power due to simplicity and cost. I can get my ej22 running and work out all the little things with out needing to worry about figuring out the turbo system at the same time. How ever where the motor will be placed it will still have the same fire wall clearance as a Subaru so it leaves that area on the passenger behind the motor as a perfect place to add a small turbo at some later date. You know when I can even think about running a turbo and the cost doesn't scare the shit out of me.

I also am working out using a svx motor. Thats going to take some cutting though.

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"Rally racing makes a heroin addiction look like a vague craving for something salty"

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mellow65
i'll take a subaru over a duratec any day of the week.

I just threw up in my mouth a little...

I just threw up in my mouth a lot.

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Doivi Clarkinen

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mellow65
i'll take a subaru over a duratec any day of the week.

I just threw up in my mouth a little...

I just threw up in my mouth a lot.

Wow you guys may want to have that checked out. There seems to be something going around.

Sorry you guys have such a bad taste for subarus, they really are great little motors. The 250k on my DD has to speak something. Can't say I could get that out of any ford with out a rebuild or two.

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"Rally racing makes a heroin addiction look like a vague craving for something salty"

none of my subaru transmissions ever could go faster then 35mph in 1st.
96 AWD, 03 WRX, 05 STI, 98 RS, 93 FWD.

actually most on stock gearing end at 30 my sti goes to 35, and 2nd takes you up to 55mph. some legacies got longer 2nds though ...

here's my mph in gear/ rpm chart : http://www.car-videos.net/tools/speedrpm.asp?Car=Select&Num1=184&Num2=65&Num3=15&AxleRatio=4.11&Ratio1=3.545&Ratio2=2.11&Ratio3=1.448&Ratio4=1.088&Ratio5=0.780&Ratio6=&Ratio7=&Redline=6250&Increment=500&B1=Recalculate


This idea / product is great enough to get real criticism. take it as a compliment if it was a bad idea / bad product no one would take the time/energy to chat about it, wonder why this, why not that... etc...

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mellow65

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john vanlandingham

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mellow65

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john vanlandingham
Can't begin to guess why anybody would use the big Toiletta trans: no alternate ratios,

wrong

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and stock ratios are crap,

wrong

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hugely heavy trans, very long and bulky.

and wrong

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Only advantages I see is: A) separable bellhousing. stoooopid strong

well at least you got two things right

Other crap ratios or some ultra rare, ultra insanely expensive TODA or Gekki or yechi or whatever gearset doesn't count.

Stock ratios ARE crap, sorry.
They're NICE for a 3600lb car to start from a stop.
Anything shorter than 3:1 is too short to allow any shorter axle ratio than maybe at absolute most 4.56

The mid 3s 3.5 ish thing is crap.

It IS huge, and heavy.

Rather than wrong wrong wrong! why not data data data.?

w55
First Gear: 3.566:1
Second Gear: 2.056:1
Third Gear: 1.384:1
Fourth Gear: 1.00:1
Fifth Gear: 0.85:1

W58
First Gear: 3.285:1
Second Gear: 1.894:1
Third Gear: 1.275:1
Fourth Gear: 1.00:1
Fifth Gear: 0.783:1

w59 (will admit this is tree stump pulling 1st)
First Gear: 3.954:1
Second Gear: 2.141:1
Third Gear: 1.275:1
Fourth Gear: 1.00:1
Fifth Gear: 0.85:1


WRX
3.454
1.947
1.366
0.972
0.738

Forester
3.545
2.111
1.448
1.088
0.780

w58 sitting next to a subaru trans



and my back will contest that the trans is lighter then a subaru trans.

and before you start saying, don't compare it to a subaru trans, you have to, because there is no other RWD option.

this was meant to give an option for someone that didn't want to run a welded center diff. and fine, you may be making a one off subaru to T5, but that isn't going to cover most people. as far as i know there isn't a 4x4 option for the T5. (really i don't know if there is)

also most of us, probably don't want to tear into a T5 and have to replace everything to make them work. I don't have the money for fancy gear sets or dog box or what ever as i'm sure most dont either.

so yes it's great there is options for the T5, how many people actually take full advantage of what is available for the T5. And really at no point have a said the the T5<W58. but once again, out of the box, i can't say the T5s i have driven in my life really shifted that great or felt all that wonderful, but on a couple of my old toyotas i did comment on how smooth things felt in the trans.

if it ain't your cup a tea, no ones asking for you to drink it. this is for the people that have wanted this but couldn't have it, and i thought i would share.

god love how you bring something new to table that is supposed to be nothing more then cool and fuck if you have to sit here and defend why i combed my hair a certain way in the morning.

it is what it is, it's not a perfect answer, but i saw no one else coming up with one so i did.

You're doing a lot of comparing apples to oranges. And yes, I will call you out on comparing it to a Subaru transmission. Those Subie ratios are nothing to write home about (there are stock Subie trannies with better ratios). There are all kinds of other transmissions you could have chosen. Your size comparison is completely misleading. Remove the bellhousing and center diff from the Subie tranny so it's a direct comparison and you can see the Subie is much smaller (though probably also much weaker, don't know how strong Toyota transmissions are.)

It is cool you made a rwd bellhousing for a Subaru though, and I suspect it wouldn't be too tough to make an adapter plate to use a T-5 or whatever with it.

Still can't understand why you would want to put a Subaru engine in an RX-7 though...

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mellow65

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Doivi Clarkinen

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mellow65
i'll take a subaru over a duratec any day of the week.

I just threw up in my mouth a little...

I just threw up in my mouth a lot.

Wow you guys may want to have that checked out. There seems to be something going around.

Sorry you guys have such a bad taste for subarus, they really are great little motors. The 250k on my DD has to speak something. Can't say I could get that out of any ford with out a rebuild or two.

Subaru engines are great in Subarus, I just don't think highly enough of them to swap them into a car that already has a better engine (like an RX-7). I'm not a Subaru hater. I've worked with plenty of Subarus. I worked on the original prototype of the Subaru DOHC 16v engine (designed & built at WWU's VRI in Bellingham.) I wouldn't consider Subaru engines the most bulletproof thing when they are pushed for lots of power and raced hard. Just because a Subaru can last 200k plus miles putting around as a grocery getter (lots of car can do that) doesn't mean it will be so reliable when pushed to it's limits. A well built rotary on the other hand can easily last for ten years or more of racing with no problems. But whatever turns your crank.

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Doivi Clarkinen
Subaru engines are great in Subarus, I just don't think highly enough of them to swap them into a car that already has a better engine (like an RX-7).

They're a lighter engine and they don't puke when you get the coolant temps over 210 or get a little dust in 'em. Sounds a hell of a lot better to me. I'm kinda tired of constantly rebuilding the things.

This was developed for the crazy guys doing solid axle swaps on early Subarus that wanted a strong tranny with a proper transfercase option. (not racing, just wheelin) I think it's a very cool option, just would have trouble fitting a Subi engine between most other cars frame rails, I would think.

-Jon

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Doivi Clarkinen
You're doing a lot of comparing apples to oranges. And yes, I will call you out on comparing it to a Subaru transmission. Those Subie ratios are nothing to write home about (there are stock Subie trannies with better ratios). There are all kinds of other transmissions you could have chosen. Your size comparison is completely misleading. Remove the bellhousing and center diff from the Subie tranny so it's a direct comparison and you can see the Subie is much smaller (though probably also much weaker, don't know how strong Toyota transmissions are.)

It is cool you made a rwd bellhousing for a Subaru though, and I suspect it wouldn't be too tough to make an adapter plate to use a T-5 or whatever with it.

Still can't understand why you would want to put a Subaru engine in an RX-7 though...

you are correct, there are some other ratios in stock form, i missed this one the first time around

US Legacy Turbo GT MY05 ran

3.166
1.882
1.296
0.972
0.738

but that's the highest i can find from the states. there were some other JDM stuff that had a higher first, but probably not going to run across them here. the next highest 1st is 3.454 then 3.545.

and actually it doesn't look like it, but the input shafts are lined up and if you took the tail housing away you wouldn't have a way of making it rwd. I'm comparing apples (subaru) to oranges(rwd) because i have to, there is no other oranges out there to compare it to.

someone make the t5 bell housing, and I'll be the first to probably tell you the t5 will be better then the w58. until that point, all i can do is compare what is available.

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Subaru engines are great in Subarus, I just don't think highly enough of them to swap them into a car that already has a better engine (like an RX-7). I'm not a Subaru hater. I've worked with plenty of Subarus. I worked on the original prototype of the Subaru DOHC 16v engine (designed & built at WWU's VRI in Bellingham.) I wouldn't consider Subaru engines the most bulletproof thing when they are pushed for lots of power and raced hard. Just because a Subaru can last 200k plus miles putting around as a grocery getter (lots of car can do that) doesn't mean it will be so reliable when pushed to it's limits. A well built rotary on the other hand can easily last for ten years or more of racing with no problems. But whatever turns your crank.

i think we could debate a rotary being better then a subaru for ever, and I'll tell you right now, I'll never believe you. But my reasoning for the subaru motor is it's a very unstressed motor. I'm not going to pushing lot of power either. Just a stock little ej22. low compression, non interference motor. And the main reason is they are damn cheap. I'm not saying a rotary could not be made to be reliable, it's just going to take some money. I remember talking to Gene about costs of rotary work and how back in the day he would spend a few hundred dollars for his rebuilds. And that was having someone do the work. The 12a that was in my old rally car only dynoed at like the 130 range at the wheels, that was after $1200 spent for the motor, and COUNTLESS hours dyno tuning to get all they could out of it. So i have to say the a 150hp at the crank 12a was well over $2000. Sure more power could be made, but then you stress the motor even more. And if you can't keep them cool, you're pretty much effed.

and you are right, there are many cars out there that could run 200k miles as a DD, but i'm betting a rx7 wouldn't be one of them.

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Pete

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Doivi Clarkinen
Subaru engines are great in Subarus, I just don't think highly enough of them to swap them into a car that already has a better engine (like an RX-7).

They're a lighter engine and they don't puke when you get the coolant temps over 210 or get a little dust in 'em. Sounds a hell of a lot better to me. I'm kinda tired of constantly rebuilding the things.

from what i can find around, the 12a falls in at around 350lbs, where the ej22 is under 250lbs.

and i appreciate someone that runs one talking about their short comings. I didn't have tons of time with one, but the piles and piles that i have read on them never shed them in a good light.

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"Rally racing makes a heroin addiction look like a vague craving for something salty"