gr.2 Rally Civic Project

Brian had proflex on the civic before the TEIN and even the previous owner/builder/suspension snob Derek Nelson said they felt similar.

I have a set in stock at work for $1500, external resivors and adjustable.

Seems like the bilsteins are a similar price.

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Cosworth
These suspensions don't stress the dampers like McPh struts. That's why the hotbits wont puke the guts on civics.

Not that it matters much, but the Hotbits I used on my Toyota were Macpherson strut, and they never puked the guts on me.

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Morison

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PeteNaz
Hey ya I got a quote from them with shipping to my door for. one way adjustable I believe

Out of curiosity is that straight from them or through Shawn at RallySport.ca? (local rally guy and supplier)
Seems to me the guys in Subarus would kill HotBits regularly but hat was the first version and I think they've dealt with the issue.
Eric Grochowski has run the same HotBits in his golf since 2006 and has done most of teh national championship in each of those years, including the rough eastern events, without any serious, non-induced, issues.

There are a few people locally who have run JVAB, talk to them directly about their experiences if you're thinking of going that route.

Hey Keith! that was direct from them when I was doing my research. I've bought a ton through Shawn so far, such a great guy. Its great to support the local scene.

I'll talk to some folks about their setups, lots going around, I like the Tiens as well that have been mentioned

And Paulino, I would probably take you up on grabbing that valving info. Would I just order billies then have them sent in, or talk to Bilstein directly before ordering? Is it possible to size spring lengths before I've bought the dampner? Or should I wait for them to come in then figure out what lengths? and Tenders and all that?

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This was the SlideALLday event yesturday at Ghost Lake. lots to improve on! but I had a complete blast

I had better runs that werent filmed or better turns but I know its cheesy cuting and pasting only the best ones into one run!

On to Trail of the GNU on Saturday.
Trail of the GNU

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PeteNaz

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Morison

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PeteNaz
Hey ya I got a quote from them with shipping to my door for. one way adjustable I believe

Out of curiosity is that straight from them or through Shawn at RallySport.ca? (local rally guy and supplier)
Seems to me the guys in Subarus would kill HotBits regularly but hat was the first version and I think they've dealt with the issue.
Eric Grochowski has run the same HotBits in his golf since 2006 and has done most of teh national championship in each of those years, including the rough eastern events, without any serious, non-induced, issues.

There are a few people locally who have run JVAB, talk to them directly about their experiences if you're thinking of going that route.

Hey Keith! that was direct from them when I was doing my research. I've bought a ton through Shawn so far, such a great guy. Its great to support the local scene.

I'll talk to some folks about their setups, lots going around, I like the Tiens as well that have been mentioned

And Paulino, I would probably take you up on grabbing that valving info. Would I just order billies then have them sent in, or talk to Bilstein directly before ordering? Is it possible to size spring lengths before I've bought the dampner? Or should I wait for them to come in then figure out what lengths? and Tenders and all that?

Just buy a Honda Civic 96-00 Bilstein HD damper because it's a 46mm piston. OEM piston size is some measy little one, so DO NOT GET DIRECT OEM REPLACEMENT or you'll get the 20 some mm piston.

Don't fuck with getting longer shocks, get the OEM part replacement bilstein shocks. You'll have to pick up their coilover sleeve threaded collar and adjustment collars too. If you wanted to go with longer shocks you'd have to start modding the shock towers to do that.

Is there a standard or suggested way to add sleeves to OE Bilsteins after cutting off the perch?

On my vw, I used some 5in Allstar performance sleeves that were sized for bilsteins. After cutting off the perch, the sleeve just slides nicely over.

So they just slide down and sit on the bracket for the knuckle? No actual attachment to the shock needed?

The damper bodies are grooved for some retaining rings to hold the sleeves. We welded some on there to make sure those things didn't fly off and dump the sleeve.

Peter, just get the HD Billes that Billy mentioned, they can be modified for extra length. There's a spacer on the shaft for the internal rebound stopper that is 40mm long. It can be modified to only 10mm and it will gain you about 2" of wheel travel, while at it you can add the nitrogen valves for easy serviceability and all the goodies.

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Cosworth
The damper bodies are grooved for some retaining rings to hold the sleeves. We welded some on there to make sure those things didn't fly off and dump the sleeve.

Peter, just get the HD Billes that Billy mentioned, they can be modified for extra length. There's a spacer on the shaft for the internal rebound stopper that is 40mm long. It can be modified to only 10mm and it will gain you about 2" of wheel travel, while at it you can add the nitrogen valves for easy serviceability and all the goodies.

Would you suggest getting tenders as well with this setup or just worry about the spring for now? Is it the 2inch sleeves that go over the HD's or the 36mm? I'm guessing 2"?
2"
36mm

What spring length are you running on your spare bilstein setup?

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I'm not familiar with Honda suspension very much. With a strut application (vw, subi) the sleeves just slide over and sit on the bracket for the knuckle , if you're lazy. You can also weld on a ring at the bottom to hold the sleeve as well. The rear shocks will have grooves cut in them. These have a snap ring that supports the sleeve. Some have had issues with these popping out or breaking. The Allstar sleeves capture the snap ring pretty well. I haven't had any issues in 800+ mi of endurance racing + grass-o-cross + fun driving.

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PeteNaz

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Cosworth
The damper bodies are grooved for some retaining rings to hold the sleeves. We welded some on there to make sure those things didn't fly off and dump the sleeve.

Peter, just get the HD Billes that Billy mentioned, they can be modified for extra length. There's a spacer on the shaft for the internal rebound stopper that is 40mm long. It can be modified to only 10mm and it will gain you about 2" of wheel travel, while at it you can add the nitrogen valves for easy serviceability and all the goodies.

Would you suggest getting tenders as well with this setup or just worry about the spring for now? Is it the 2inch sleeves that go over the HD's or the 36mm? I'm guessing 2"?
2"
36mm

What spring length are you running on your spare bilstein setup?

I have 12" springs on there. No need for tenders unless you chose stiff springs.

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Robert Culbertson
I'm not familiar with Honda suspension very much. With a strut application (vw, subi) the sleeves just slide over and sit on the bracket for the knuckle , if you're lazy. You can also weld on a ring at the bottom to hold the sleeve as well. The rear shocks will have grooves cut in them. These have a snap ring that supports the sleeve. Some have had issues with these popping out or breaking. The Allstar sleeves capture the snap ring pretty well. I haven't had any issues in 800+ mi of endurance racing + grass-o-cross + fun driving.

Hondas are going to be the same snap ring setup on all four corners.

I'll have to keep the Allstar stuff in mind - if you buy the sleeve and perch separately from summit (don't need the top mounts if you're using the stock upper mounting) you'd be looking at $31/corner - much better than the $70/corner for the Bilstein sleeves...

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PeteNaz

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Cosworth
The damper bodies are grooved for some retaining rings to hold the sleeves. We welded some on there to make sure those things didn't fly off and dump the sleeve.

Peter, just get the HD Billes that Billy mentioned, they can be modified for extra length. There's a spacer on the shaft for the internal rebound stopper that is 40mm long. It can be modified to only 10mm and it will gain you about 2" of wheel travel, while at it you can add the nitrogen valves for easy serviceability and all the goodies.

Would you suggest getting tenders as well with this setup or just worry about the spring for now? Is it the 2inch sleeves that go over the HD's or the 36mm? I'm guessing 2"?
2"
36mm

What spring length are you running on your spare bilstein setup?

I run tenders on mine for gravel, but I don't think I've tried running them on my gravel springs with no tenders. I know I need the tenders for my tarmac springs because if I just put the spring in the car sits all lifted and now lower like I need it to be. I guess I could muck around with it some time once it gets warmer and see if I can run my gravel springs without a tender. But I'm guessing it will be like the snow rates I run no tender but put pre-load. But as I've mentioned before, my 300mm spring length for snow isn't long enough because I get a lot of spring binding (all the paint inside the spring is all flaking off from making contact).

But if you're running with spring tenders, a 300mm spring works, which is what I use. Running no tender you'd be looking at a 350mm spring. How long do you have to get this all sorted out and pick your spring rates for your first gravel rally? It's a few days until spring and we just got snow in Michigan but once it gets warmer I could take a day and swap around springs and get some data for you to go on.

Paul, you have any issues with spring binding on a 12"/300mm spring running no tenders? I don't see any with mine, but I'm not running with much pre-load because there's still room for the tender to compress before it binds.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/18/2013 11:31AM by BillyElliot.

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BillyElliot

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PeteNaz

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Cosworth
The damper bodies are grooved for some retaining rings to hold the sleeves. We welded some on there to make sure those things didn't fly off and dump the sleeve.

Peter, just get the HD Billes that Billy mentioned, they can be modified for extra length. There's a spacer on the shaft for the internal rebound stopper that is 40mm long. It can be modified to only 10mm and it will gain you about 2" of wheel travel, while at it you can add the nitrogen valves for easy serviceability and all the goodies.

Would you suggest getting tenders as well with this setup or just worry about the spring for now? Is it the 2inch sleeves that go over the HD's or the 36mm? I'm guessing 2"?
2"
36mm

What spring length are you running on your spare bilstein setup?

I run tenders on mine for gravel, but I don't think I've tried running them on my gravel springs with no tenders. I know I need the tenders for my tarmac springs because if I just put the spring in the car sits all lifted and now lower like I need it to be. I guess I could muck around with it some time once it gets warmer and see if I can run my gravel springs without a tender. But I'm guessing it will be like the snow rates I run no tender but put pre-load. But as I've mentioned before, my 300mm spring length for snow isn't long enough because I get a lot of spring binding (all the paint inside the spring is all flaking off from making contact).

But if you're running with spring tenders, a 300mm spring works, which is what I use. Running no tender you'd be looking at a 350mm spring. How long do you have to get this all sorted out and pick your spring rates for your first gravel rally? It's a few days until spring and we just got snow in Michigan but once it gets warmer I could take a day and swap around springs and get some data for you to go on.

Paul, you have any issues with spring binding on a 12"/300mm spring running no tenders? I don't see any with mine, but I'm not running with much pre-load because there's still room for the tender to compress before it binds.

First event will be May 25th, the Cochrane rally. Which is the weekend that the Rocky Mountain Rally was originally held the last couple of years. And I believe its been muckkky but it can also have potential to be dryish.... So maybe some softer springs would do some good for this event. I wont worry about tarmac right now, but I'll make sure I have gavel and snow spec springs for the event...

Keith, what do you think from any previous experience or talking to competitors at these events?

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