Olympus 2014
Posted by heymagic
Grant Hughes Godlike Moderator Location: Whitefish, MT Join Date: 01/11/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 6,818 Rally Car: BMW |
Jay Woodward Professional Moderator Location: Snohomish, WA Join Date: 12/21/2005 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 893 Rally Car: '90 Mazdog Frankenprotege |
John Vanlandingham Elite Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
John Vanlandingham Elite Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Andrew Frick Mega Moderator Location: Greenville, SC Join Date: 05/18/2007 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 684 Rally Car: Rally Spec Ford Focus |
Allan Dantes Mega Moderator Location: Herman, MI Join Date: 01/27/2006 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 176 Rally Car: 87 Mazda LSRX-7 |
Banned Super Moderator Location: Calgary, AB Join Date: 03/27/2009 Age: Ancient Posts: 1,798 Rally Car: (ex)86 RX-7(built), (ex)2.5RS (bought) |
First off, a disclaimer that I'll be talking in generalities here and recognise there will be exceptions to each of these points. Suspension: The ride on rally suspension at recce speeds is relatively rough, making it much tougher to write clean notes (or changes) on the fly. That means a lot of going back to re-write sections and some difficulty - at times - with reading what has been written. Comfort: Not to be underestimated. Having A/C or proper heat in a recce car makes the day less taxing and helps keep you ready for the rally itself. Lets not forget the seemingly countless holes most rally cars have that let in dust... recce in a relatively tight grouping of cars means you don't really get enough positive pressure from a roof vent to keep the dust out. Noise: The inside of a rally car gets really noisy, even on recce and at recce speeds. Even with transit headsets (which I even use in a road car on recce) it means extra 'work' speaking above the noise as well as hearing above it. You really do want clear communication on recce. Wear and tear: Not all rally cars enjoy being driven around at 30mph, or transiting long distances at 70mph. Some do, granted, and that might be fine, but you're still taking miles off the car. I've seen more than one rally car DNF on recce with something that could have been caught in a pre-event bolt check. Meh. Some of the best notes I've made were done in a F-350. A much bigger difference for crests is if you're running the stage in the dark but recceing in the daylight. THEN you'll see crests come out of nowhere! Sightline is important, but not as much as many of the other issues. I'd take a rental Exploder before the rally car any day of the week. Don't forget, if you're looking WAY DOWN THE ROAD, like you're supposed to, a couple of feet difference in perspective won't make that much of a difference. But, one of he reasons I have my daily driver set-up with a skidplate, odo, and have speedlines with gravels on them is because it is nice to be recceing in an impreza when you're rallying in one. RV? No. Rental, absolutely - but drive cautiously and don't dnf recce with flats. First Rally: 2001 Driver (7), Co-Driver (44) Drivers (16) Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4) Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0) Last Updated, January 4, 2015 
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Banned Super Moderator Location: Calgary, AB Join Date: 03/27/2009 Age: Ancient Posts: 1,798 Rally Car: (ex)86 RX-7(built), (ex)2.5RS (bought) |
We've had 2 pass recce, write your own notes - nothing provided, for the vast majority of our events in Western Canada for the last 10 years. The decision was made before I got involved in making decisons so I can't talk to the 'why.' But entry levels are much higher and disproportionally higher when compared to what's happening in US rally... so it doesn't seem to have hurt at all. Mostly because the teams were calling for it. Our last national that had a moving service park faced annual complaints about it. Besides, central service is really much more friendly to the grassroots competitor, particularly those who can't put together a service crew. (Which seems to be a reasonable number in every event I've been at) To do anything else needs more roads we can get permissions for, more volunteers to support the event, and competitors willing to spend longer out in the woods. 200km seems to be a natural 'max' that is being accepted these days by the competitors. And what's wrong with TV? And what's wrong with using the right tool for the job? Ahhh... I loved being able to jump out of the car and into the motorhome when we had one. Particularity at cold or wet events it was a godsend and possibly even a competitive advantage. But, I've done far more events without a motorhome than with, and it's far from my 'must have' list. What actually bothers me more than that is the proliferation of enclosed trailers. A decade ago you wouldn't have seen a single enclosed trailer at any of our events and now it seems half the field at our regional events are using them. First Rally: 2001 Driver (7), Co-Driver (44) Drivers (16) Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4) Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0) Last Updated, January 4, 2015
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Jay Woodward Professional Moderator Location: Snohomish, WA Join Date: 12/21/2005 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 893 Rally Car: '90 Mazdog Frankenprotege |
Banned Super Moderator Location: Calgary, AB Join Date: 03/27/2009 Age: Ancient Posts: 1,798 Rally Car: (ex)86 RX-7(built), (ex)2.5RS (bought) |
Don't confuse my position as being a 'must do.'
There are tangible advantages to not using the rally car for recce, advantages that make a difference. I'll admit they come at a cost, and if the advantages are worth the cost is something that is a team by team decision. If you're starting with Jemba and just wanting to see the road and not 'fix' the notes... the biggest advantages are significantly reduced. First Rally: 2001 Driver (7), Co-Driver (44) Drivers (16) Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4) Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0) Last Updated, January 4, 2015
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Banned Super Moderator Location: Calgary, AB Join Date: 03/27/2009 Age: Ancient Posts: 1,798 Rally Car: (ex)86 RX-7(built), (ex)2.5RS (bought) |
Why does it have to be one or the other? Up here, where we have 2 pass recce, we also have regular sanctioned and insured test days on a real stage road. Typically three, but as many as four test days where the teams that come out virtually all run as much as they want in a day, volunteers/sponsors get rides, teams trade cars/co-drivers and the smart ones play with set-up and tire selection to see what really makes a difference. First Rally: 2001 Driver (7), Co-Driver (44) Drivers (16) Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4) Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0) Last Updated, January 4, 2015
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Jay Woodward Professional Moderator Location: Snohomish, WA Join Date: 12/21/2005 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 893 Rally Car: '90 Mazdog Frankenprotege |
Banned Infallible Moderator Location: Red Deer, Alberta Join Date: 09/13/2011 Posts: 717 Rally Car: 2002 Subaru WRX STi |
Its too bad BC didn't have any test days... there must be a 3km-ish road close to the border that would make it super easy for the PNW and BC to team up and have one. We certainly have enough competitors in BC to warrant it I'd think. Having recce'd in everything, Keith brings up valid points. I disagree on the truck issue, but then again, I'll be recce'ing for a long time in a truck. Doesn't matter how far ahead you look, a small, insignificant crest is still a small, insignificant crest in the truck. There definitely is a sightline difference that is noticeable over those small ones and can have a relatively large change in notes (for myself anyways). But for even a one day rental, getting a smaller vehicle is definitely the way to go IMO. Of course, better notes/practice helps get past that 
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Banned Super Moderator Location: Calgary, AB Join Date: 03/27/2009 Age: Ancient Posts: 1,798 Rally Car: (ex)86 RX-7(built), (ex)2.5RS (bought) |
There has been some chatter about test days in, or around, Merritt. ~4 and a bit hours one-way for Jay. We've regularly had people drive that far, or further, for test days in Calgary. (That's about the same as Deadmonton to the Loop, but with a border crossing thrown in for fun) First Rally: 2001 Driver (7), Co-Driver (44) Drivers (16) Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4) Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0) Last Updated, January 4, 2015
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Alex Staidle Ultra Moderator Location: Δx = ħ/2Δp Join Date: 08/21/2009 Age: Settling Down Posts: 1,719 Rally Car: Various Heaps |
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