A spec class for brand new vehicles because everyone else is building the wrong new vehicles.

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EricW
A spec class for brand new vehicles because everyone else is building the wrong new vehicles.

CARS has expressed manufacturer support being required to grow the national series (I strongly disagree with them on this issue, as they too believe manufacturers nationally are the answer just like RA), but at least it is there. The rationale is that if it is offered, maybe they will come? It doesn't hurt to try, and I agree with that sort of attitude.

It would make your head spin how fast a spec series could be put together if the call came...

Manufacturer: "Hi, I'm with (manufacturer). We want to go rallying, but we would like a spec class kind of like (example). We're willing to put some money into the prize funds, and money into promotion on top of that. Is this possible?"

Sanctioning body: "Ok, done. What do you want to call it?"

I've met with some of them, and I can tell you the manufacturers know this. None of them are sitting back in the board rooms poring over rules books each year saying "Dang! If only that modifier was a 1.1 instead of a 1.2, we could rally this car! Oh well, let's check the rule book again next year."

Are there any vehicles that qualify as Spec B currently?

Anders

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Grassroots rally. It's what I think about.

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EricW
A spec class for brand new vehicles because everyone else is building the wrong new vehicles.

http://rally-america.com/RuleBulletin/Rule_Bulletin_2012_006.pdf ?

(I actually don't think b-spec is at all a bad idea for rally - especially if they did just what the road-race guys have done: for each car, a single spec suspension kit for reasonably cheap. Unfortunately, without any contingencies or mfr support, it's a non-starter IMO.)

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KF7RWG
http://www.utahrallygroup.com

What it feels like to me is that RA just "invented" b-spec. I would expect an announcement, in parallel, of some form of prize fund, manufacturer support, or any other support IF it existed...

To me this seems like.. "hey! Let's make a b-spec class and see what happens".

First, you should ask yourself why all of the other spec classes never worked. Guesses?

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EricW
What it feels like to me is that RA just "invented" b-spec. I would expect an announcement, in parallel, of some form of prize fund, manufacturer support, or any other support IF it existed...

To me this seems like.. "hey! Let's make a b-spec class and see what happens"

Yep. I wondered briefly if somebody just screwed up the timing of the announcement, until I saw that the bulletin is dated almost a month ago.

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KF7RWG
http://www.utahrallygroup.com

I was wondering if they were trying to pull certain cars out of the national 2wd class (Fiesta R2 package) but since that R2 package won't be B-spec. no they aren't

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HiTempguy

CARS has expressed manufacturer support being required to grow the national series (I strongly disagree with them on this issue, as they too believe manufacturers nationally are the answer just like RA)

Adam....
Although I am but 1 person who sits on the CARS board, with often differing opinons than others on the same board, I find your insight into what we apparently think amusing.

But seriously, did you know that you can pick up the phone or fire off an email to either myself or Bruno the competitor rep and let us know your dissagreements? We really want to hear the thoughts and input of license holders. There is a lot to consider and we try to weigh it all. The manufacturer thing you mention is just one angle to the issue, not THE angle as you seem to take it.

-Eric

Eric, all I have to say is what I hear. I don't know how what I heard at the AGM can be misconstrued any other way. Those are the words that came out of Tom's mouth. As I pointed out, there seemed (again, in my opinion) to be a severe disconnect with the information that was presented to us at the competitors meeting, and it did not appear very well thought out/organized between the board members in the way it was presented.

If CARS was more forthcoming with information and informed its members of what it was thinking, there wouldn't have to be any sort of miscommunication like this. My opinion is exactly that, my opinion. I do not profess to know anything beyond what CARS tells us. I still don't think there has been an official post by CARS about the rule changes they were considering. If Bruno sent out an e-mail, then I've already deleted it/forgotten about it.

Chris Martin made a thread asking about the rule changes coming down the pipeline a week after the AGM after I hinted at some of the possibilities of change. Nothing from CARS/members of the board had said anything until then. I did not start posting any information for this EXACT reason, so CARS would have time to formulate and release a well thought out package. I still don't know if that has happened.

And once again, I know CARS will make the right decision, or at least, what it views as the right decision for the championship. There are plenty of good people working on these things (like yourself) so I doubt there will ever be a "failure" in making things work.

Fair point. I guess that's what I'm alluding to, CARS isn't one person with a singular frame of mind, it's a little more democratic than that. And on this particular issue, CARS hasn't made up it's mind yet (once it does, we'll be a little more unified on the issue and have something to distribute - and there will of course be much lead time before adoption). I just have to disagree with the notion that CARS has adopted the thinking that manufacturer involvement is the answer to growing the sport in Canada.

The specific context, whether Tom was able to verbalize it correctly or not after hours of mind-numbing meetings, was that since we have an expression of interest from a manufacturer towards running a particular car in our championship, let's be careful not to adopt new class rules that would prevent it from doing so, or else growth of the sport might be hindered. Now, if that can be done without harming other stakeholders, I will vote in favor. If you feel that (not just as yourself, but also in the context of being the president of a region that I try my best to represent) making such an allowance is a mistake, I absolutely want to hear you out on it. Nothing has been decided yet.

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Flying_Finn
Fair point. I guess that's what I'm alluding to, CARS isn't one person with a singular frame of mind, it's a little more democratic than that. And on this particular issue, CARS hasn't made up it's mind yet (once it does, we'll be a little more unified on the issue and have something to distribute - and there will of course be much lead time before adoption). I just have to disagree with the notion that CARS has adopted the thinking that manufacturer involvement is the answer to growing the sport in Canada.

The specific context, whether Tom was able to verbalize it correctly or not after hours of mind-numbing meetings, was that since we have an expression of interest from a manufacturer towards running a particular car in our championship, let's be careful not to adopt new class rules that would prevent it from doing so, or else growth of the sport might be hindered. Now, if that can be done without harming other stakeholders, I will vote in favor. If you feel that (not just as yourself, but also in the context of being the president of a region that I try my best to represent) making such an allowance is a mistake, I absolutely want to hear you out on it. Nothing has been decided yet.

You can tell us, we won't tell anybody.
We're not like the others........we're your friends...


cause it sure seems it is awfully vague hush hush stuff youse guys are all alludin' to..

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

once upon a time, I was a naive low budget wanna be rally driver, volunteering to help organize stuff. Now, I'm a double agent working for the Canadian CIA. All you street (forest?) racers are going down. It's a conspiracy.

Grochowski is not a Finnish name.

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"Talk about drugs. Driving a car like that, going that fast, it’s like all the drugs at once." - Tommy Byrne

"Now, Pinky, if by any chance you are captured during this mission, remember you are Gunther Heindriksen from Appenzell. You moved to Grindelwald to drive the cog train to Murren. Can you repeat that?" - The Brain

Nah, my dad moved there before I was born. They still let me vote tho.

This won't save Rally, but it might make far out events a little more appealing. read the links to get the full deal, and disclosure, I won the championship last year.

Over in the PNW of specialstage.com Jim Robinson asked for input to make the Norton Championship better, this is my input:

Norton said build a bridge.
a bridge should give benefit to all who cross it, not just those that cross it the fastest, the most often.
it would be nice to have a raffle at the first drivers meeting to introduce the teams and reward them for the trip.
give an outside team a individual goal in order to get prizes. for fast teams have a power stage
the cumulative big deal should simply be the honored title of "Ambassador of the NORTH/SOUTH"
Thanks for last year
Adam

-Thinking about this ambassador idea more.
the "championship" should be a collection of points. the more points you get, the more tickets you have in the "ambassador raffle".
$10 signup of out of towners per event, $20 per local.
out of towners get 1.5x the points.
2 points for drivers meeting,
2 points for longest tow.
2 points for finishing,
2 points for "power stage" (2wd/Awd)
some of the entry fee goes to a "tow fee lottery" at the drives meeting, the rest goes to the end of year.
Here's the Ambassador part:
at the end of the season points turn into raffle tickets, pull a ticket from the "North bucket" and a ticket from the "south bucket"
these two teams are now "ambassadors" for their region and get special privileges.
2 free entries to Norton events out of region.
a "diplomacy pass" to invite an out of region competitor for a free entry to a "home event".
other unspecified goodies (discounts, t-shirts, immunity) and proclamation-al powers. (think 24hr lemons judges, but good spirited) - they get to hand out special prizes for the next year.
To limit these two team for next season, they never receive the 1.5x out of town bonus, all events are "home".

That sounds like some kind of riot. I'd love to be the northern ambassador.
so the tale of two teams
NORTH:
runs 3 events:
OLY, DNF -2pts (starting local)
Mendo, 3rd -6pts (start, finish x1.5)
Hood, 1st, powerstage. -6pts ( start, finish, power)
spent $40 to norton, won a raffle for $60gas at mendo.
collects 14tickets to the raffle
SOUTH:
runs 4 events:
IDAHO: DNF -6pts (start, longest tow X1.5)
NNV: -4pts start, finish
MENDO: -2pts start
HoOD: -18pts start, power stage, DNF, tow, x1.5
Spent $60 to norton, wins $50 for gas at IDAHO, and $70 at Hood
gets 30 raffle tickets.

The next year, the powerstages are named after the Ambassadors, they each invite a team to travel to a far away event, they help talk other people into traveling to their other free far away event. discounts, and beer cups, bribes to get invited to a free event by the ambassador, etc . . .

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"I put the hurt on dirt" - adam crane
http://CraneRallyCrew.com
corolla gt-s "Patches"
Op: S.S.