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BMW Compact Build

Posted by DaveK 
NoCoast
Grant Hughes
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Re: BMW Compact Build
July 15, 2013 11:04PM
Wow John, helpful! As an engine builder and expert we really are thankful you are helping Dave figure out this problem with some great advice!



Grant Hughes
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Re: BMW Compact Build
July 15, 2013 11:31PM
Quote
NoCoast
Wow John, helpful! As an engine builder and expert we really are thankful you are helping Dave figure out this problem with some great advice!

No problem Grasshopper. The first thing; one must do is cover the basics.
And when things are going badly, especially weird mysterious stuff, first cover the big serious stuff.
Like divine retribution.

Maybe Gawd is angry at Dave for something...
Must eliminate those things first.



John Vanlandingham
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NoCoast
Grant Hughes
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Re: BMW Compact Build
July 16, 2013 08:11AM
Quote
john vanlandingham
Maybe Gawd is angry at Dave for something...
Must eliminate those things first.

Did ya watch Pikes Peak video?

Cover the simple things first? Hahaha, you don't know Dave that well apparently. smiling smiley



Grant Hughes
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DaveK
Dave Kern
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Re: BMW Compact Build
July 17, 2013 12:15PM
Not that many of you guys are local, but here's a copy of my plea for help that I'm blasting around the interwebz:

We put a camera in the plug holes tonight and found marks on #2 piston and a valve stuck to #6 and can only rotate the crank ~70 degrees. (Photos are from my Kern Racing facebook page, so some folks may not be able to see them.)





Best guess is the timing chain skipped...but unsure if valve snapped first and caused it, or if a skip caused the contact. Last time the head had to come off one retainer failed so a new head and one piston was enough to get it going again, but with marks on multiple pistons and a valve that looks like it snapped off, I'm thinking rather than trying to rebuild I should just find another engine.

The car has 1995 OBD-I wiring, but I figure it wouldn't be all that bad to look at OBD-II options but I do have class rules to consider. Group 2 allows for engine displacement up to 3.0L, and Group 5 allows up to 5.0L...or forced induction on an engine up to 3.0L. So, since I'd like to keep the option of adding a blower down the line, I'm primarily looking for the following:

- 3.0L M3 (1995 only)
- 325 with VANOS
- 328 engine

I suppose I could also consider a Euro 3.0 or 3.2 since I think in the 290-330 range would probably be enough for a car racing in a limited traction environment, but just like the S54 engines, I suspect they're well outside my budget and may not be as plug and play as I need given my timeline.

Please let us know if you have something or might have leads...next race is last weekend of the month and I'm hoping to have something figured out so we don't have to miss it. Land's End Hill Climb is a fantastic stretch of road:





Thanks,

Dave
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aj_johnson
A.J. Johnson
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Re: BMW Compact Build
July 18, 2013 01:10AM
The engine issues suck! Hank Moore at advanced auto fab in spokane prolly has motors around. but more importantly may have some info on what to do to make the motor less failure prone. He rents out some class of scca prepped BMW race cars and as a car owner providing a rental M3 motored e30's and trackside service he might have some tricks up his sleeve. Really nice guy I just helped out as pit crew at the 36 hour chumpcar race in spokane that his cars won, (in the last 2 minutes afer some bumpdrafting involving a mid engine 5cyl turbo rabbit pickup and a VW GTI- most exciting race I'v ever been part of. Just too bad it took 29 hours to get to the exciting part)

If you want his contact info shoot me a message. best help I can offer 541-701-79 eighty 3
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Alex Staidle
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Re: BMW Compact Build
July 18, 2013 08:53AM
this car needs more rotary.... grinning smiley



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Re: BMW Compact Build
July 18, 2013 01:34PM
Quote
Gravity Fed
this car needs more rotary.... grinning smiley


I'd love a rotary swap in something someday-but perhaps a lighter car than this due to the lack of torque issues.....


No-what this car needs is the propeller emblem pried off and a blue oval installed!

A nice 2.3(plus!) Duratec under the hood with some nice high compression pistons,ported head, forged internals screaming to insane RPM's,and of course some sweet ITB's!



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NoCoast
Grant Hughes
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Re: BMW Compact Build
July 18, 2013 02:00PM
This car needs more...stock?

If you keep worrying about power and maximizing performance for hill climbs you will end up in the same boat as the Evo with a high dollar engine build and should just go that route right now.

What I would do is figure out what the best and most reliable option would be that wouldn't require you to do anything to the engine and put that in and keep getting miles and go do a fucking stage rally already. To me, that would be a OBD2 2.8L engine converted to run on the OBD1 ECU and wiring you have. No M3 cams, no etc. Just drop the fucking thing in, change the oil, go race.



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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Re: BMW Compact Build
July 18, 2013 03:44PM
Maybe eventually somebody will kiss the flats of the valve locks so they bit the valves better...



John Vanlandingham
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DaveK
Dave Kern
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Re: BMW Compact Build
July 18, 2013 03:45PM
Quote
RALLYRS
Quote
Gravity Fed
this car needs more rotary.... grinning smiley

No-what this car needs is the propeller emblem pried off and a blue oval installed!

A nice 2.3(plus!) Duratec under the hood with some nice high compression pistons,ported head, forged internals screaming to insane RPM's,and of course some sweet ITB's!

If this car were to get a swap from another manufacturer, it'd be mitsubishi since I've got a spare 2.3L stroker 11:1 compression...and she's beggin fer it!

But I don't want to limit where I can run the car, so it's going to stay BMW powered.

Quote
NoCoast
This car needs more...stock?

If you keep worrying about power and maximizing performance for hill climbs you will end up in the same boat as the Evo with a high dollar engine build and should just go that route right now.

What I would do is figure out what the best and most reliable option would be that wouldn't require you to do anything to the engine and put that in and keep getting miles and go do a fucking stage rally already. To me, that would be a OBD2 2.8L engine converted to run on the OBD1 ECU and wiring you have. No M3 cams, no etc. Just drop the fucking thing in, change the oil, go race.

Agreed - sort of. The problem with simply dropping in the 2.8 as is is that the tune that I have on my current chip is for an M3 with bolt ons (exhaust & intake). By putting the M3 cams on the 328 I'd likely be close enough on the tune that the car would run ok...I'm not sure that'd be the case with the stock 328 cams.

Looking at the car longer term and realizing that the car will likely see 3/4 of its races at CHCA events and 1/4 at rallies...I would like to have something more powerful than what's in it currently. I think that to make a rally this year, what's more realistic is taking the red car out since it's already got a log book and whatnot and taking the rest of the fall/winter to come up with a game plan for the Compact...oh, and guess what cams the red car has in it?

Dave
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Re: BMW Compact Build
July 18, 2013 03:52PM
how lame is the 1.9L?



First Rally: 2010 First RallyX: 2004 (a bunch)
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john vanlandingham
John Vanlandingham
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Re: BMW Compact Build
July 18, 2013 04:15PM
Quote
Gravity Fed
how lame is the 1.9L?

Not lame at all



John Vanlandingham
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DaveK
Dave Kern
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Re: BMW Compact Build
July 18, 2013 04:17PM
Quote
john vanlandingham
Quote
Gravity Fed
how lame is the 1.9L?

Not lame at all

~135hp....at altitude....climbing hills....I'd probably be faster in my duramax.
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Mike Ball
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Re: BMW Compact Build
July 18, 2013 05:35PM
Quote
DaveK
Quote
john vanlandingham
Quote
Gravity Fed
how lame is the 1.9L?

Not lame at all

~135hp....at altitude....climbing hills....I'd probably be faster in my duramax.

We seem to have a disagreement here between John and Dave on the little engine in the 318ti.

A while ago I wouldn't even notice such topics,but since lurking at Rallyanarchy you Damn guys have me not only doing craigslist searches for xr's(I've already owned a couple of those though),but now I'm scouring the ads for not only Volvo 240's ,but E30's,E36's and there's just something about the little 318ti that I like-I think I want one for a daily.

But if you don't want to do a swap-can you gear the fuck out of it/tune/something-so it can get out of it's own way?



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Support your Local North American Rally Forum!!

While they are still around-and get the hell off Farsebook!!

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DaveK
Dave Kern
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Re: BMW Compact Build
July 18, 2013 05:51PM
Quote
RALLYRS
But if you don't want to do a swap-can you gear the fuck out of it/tune/something-so it can get out of it's own way?

The automatic 318ti came with a 4.44 open diff. Weld away and it's not a terrible ratio, but I'm not familiar with the gear ratios in the 4-cyl transmission.

I've got a supra diff that got put into mine because in the BMW medium case, its hard to get anything over a 4.10. Honestly, even with the 4.3 diff and a motor that makes 240hp at sea level...its boring at a hillclimb once the car hooks up out of the corners.

Keep in mind the amount of suck induced from living at 5,000 feet and having most of our hillclimbs that start over 8,000 feet is probably the main reason for our differences. I'd love it if there were an affordable 4 cyl that made 200hp, because the 4-cyl engines weigh 100 lbs less than the 6-cyl...and that extra 100 lbs is all past the shock tower, so not in an ideal location.

EDIT: Here's a link to one of the shops that does build the 1.9L engines:

http://www.metricmechanic.com/product-prices/engines/m42-m44/

I'll give you a hint on how reasonable BMW engine builds are...I bought an M3 engine that makes more HP/TQ for less than half what one of those builds costs...yes, half! I also looked into using an S14 (E30 M3 motor) but that was even more expensive, so I figured since this was supposed to be 'stock is reliable' sorta build that simply going with larger displacement would get me close to where I wanted to be.

Dave



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/18/2013 05:58PM by DaveK.
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