Lets say I wanted to build a car...

Andrew, I like how you think, haha.

The clutch, I -think- slips, but not in 5th. It feels like it grabs real slow in 2nd if i try to get on it. It can be a mix of general doggyness, and soft suspension/trans mounts/motormounts/etc.

The first plan is to get it ready, and see if I can get it to a rallycross next month and get some mud on it.

Beyond that, Frankly, I'm not sure yet... A bit overwhelmed at the moment thinking about it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/19/2011 06:26PM by BobOfTheFuture.

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BobOfTheFuture
Andrew, I like how you think, haha.

The clutch, I -think- slips, but not in 5th. It feels like it grabs real slow in 2nd if i try to get on it. It can be a mix of general doggyness, and soft suspension/trans mounts/motormounts/etc.

The first plan is to get it ready, and see if I can get it to a rallycross next month and get some mud on it.

Beyond that, Frankly, I'm not sure yet... A bit overwhelmed at the moment thinking about it.

Hey Bob, Andrew is a good guy to have in your corner when the going is tough.
Not the least for the astute observations.

Check ALL fluids. Dump brake fluid, put in sumpin fresh and Low Moisture Activity type.
Time to grab a pencil and paper and begin to sketch-in lightly "the plan".
Lightly in pencil---there is an eraser on the other end, so don't sweat erasures.
But sketch in"The Plan" including "The Timeline".

Or it will never get done.

And then you will die!

10 years can flash by in a blink.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Yeah, I definitely have to do that. It all seemed pretty straight foward until this morning, I should have planned it out then!

But, no changing fluids starts it. Ive got a sealed can of super blue left over, that should be enough. You mentioned the brakes specifically, I know the fluid will be ancient, but is there something I should know about 240 brakes?

Gotta gut it just to get it out of the way. And then.... uh....

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john vanlandingham

10 years can flash by in a blink.

Ain't that the truth. Get going while you have motivation and time, or you'll end up trading your sort of caged shell for a case of Guinness just so you don't have to watch the thing slowly rust in the back yard...and your leading entertainment will be giving suspect advice on internet rally forums.

But thanks for the kind words, John. My stage rally experience is limited to one co-driving stint and schlepping around the northeast US and eastern Canada as low-rent service crew or stage marshall on and off for the past 12 or 13 years. There are lots out there with more experience. John and Rally Anarchy have taught me lots, as have other friends in the sport. I sure as hell don't know ten percent mechanically of what a lot of people do on here, but I DO know "a good plan today is better than a perfect plan tomorrow", SIMPLE IS GOOD, and THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS A SMALL PROJECT.

Yes, sketch out a timeline in pencil, then as funds allow, get out a pen, or better yet stone or blood (muhahaha) and solidify the plans. Don't rally on a credit card.

If you're single without kids there are two things you should be doing, making money to spend on the car and spending money/working on the car. If you're in a relationship and/or have kids, you'd best have some job that pays beaucoups buckos so cash can substitute for time spent working on the car (although the trick there is to find the right shop).

I see three ways you can go about playing with this car:

Cheapest is fix the clutch, do some basic maintenance to get it in good driving shape and go squish some cones with it in a dirt parking lot. Or go run some Finger Lakes winter TSD events.

Next, if you have $5-7k kicking around and you want to go play on the stages quick, do what is listed immediately above, add cage, seats, belts, get it logbooked, get suit and Hans and Franz device, and add some real suspension to the front.

If you're loaded and have more like 10-15k floating around there, can I interest you in a unique investment opportunity.....ummm....I mean, get a T-5 transmission and soup up the rear end with a better diff. I've heard Toyota pickup and Dana 30 thrown out there as possibilities, as well as a 4-link setup, but you'll want to talk to the egg-spurts for better info. Better brakes are a good thing. More Cams, Carbs and Compression for the engine!

OK, this is probably degraded into silly rambling, so go fix the clutch on that Volvo!

I will add, try to keep it drivable as much as possible throughout the build, and go use it. Don't strip it and put it in boxes so you can build the ultimate rally car. I went to drift days with home made coil overs, did a gravel TSD right after we caged it. It kept me wanting to finish it and get out there.

Is does not need to be fancy to be fun, just reliable. Focus on that stuff first.

Best chunk of advice I ever got in this crazy rally world was from Derik Nelson. When you are working on the car, and fabricating or fixing, ask yourself 3 questions. Does it make the car stronger? Does it make the car more reliable? Does it make the car easier to work on? If it does not fit into one of those categories, then you don't NEED it to go have fun.

Fun first, being competitive will come later with experience. It can't be fun if you don't get the car finished.

Great choice on car BTW.

"Is does not need to be fancy to be fun, just reliable."

This has been my basis since the idea to go rally first popped in my head.

I plan to do rallycross first cause theres one in a month. I want it gutted by then. Once I kill the clutch at that RX ill look into a clutch or doing that T5 swap I keep reading about.

From there, the rest is option #2 "Next, if you have $5-7k kicking around and you want to go play on the stages quick, do what is listed immediately above, add cage, seats, belts, get it logbooked, get suit and Hans and Franz device, and add some real suspension to the front"

But not all at once. I gotta do it in steps.

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BobOfTheFuture
"Is does not need to be fancy to be fun, just reliable."

This has been my basis since the idea to go rally first popped in my head.

I plan to do rallycross first cause theres one in a month. I want it gutted by then. Once I kill the clutch at that RX ill look into a clutch or doing that T5 swap I keep reading about.

From there, the rest is option #2 "Next, if you have $5-7k kicking around and you want to go play on the stages quick, do what is listed immediately above, add cage, seats, belts, get it logbooked, get suit and Hans and Franz device, and add some real suspension to the front"

But not all at once. I gotta do it in steps.

I bought that EGt you were looking into a few months ago, sorry i had to. i have broken the car down to 3 steps.
1. get the car home, assess. get it road legal and reliable.
2. get it stage ready.
3. deal with step 2

so far i have completed step 1. in oder to get the car log booked i need maybe another grand. doable but iam buying a house.

when you get the time put it up on jack stands and completely inspect everything that moves. make a list of things that can be fixed and things requiring parts. work on the cheap stuff and buy your parts. i was told that JB used to make a list of "to dos" and tape it to the windsheild. check things off as you move down the list.

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BobOfTheFuture
The clutch, I -think- slips, but not in 5th. It feels like it grabs real slow in 2nd if i try to get on it. It can be a mix of general doggyness, and soft suspension/trans mounts/motormounts/etc.

Then it probably is slipping and may be worn down to the rivets. If it it doing this in 2nd, then it probably will not survive the 1st rally x and you may have hassles getting home. So that might go on top of the list. You can do some inspections while you are there, put in a decent clutch, check the flywheel and get a clean surface machined, change gear oil to a good synthetic, rear seal, rebuild/replace clutch master & slave cylinders, etc. Check the trannie mount and replace with something recommended here. It's a good 1 week or less project if you plan a bit and get the parts ahead of time. (If you are not very familiar with this work, do you have someone to hlep?)

I think John's advice on the brake fluid is good general advice. Most cars never get that changed and 21 years of slow moisture accumulation will make it very suspect (rusty, cruddy, and easy to boil), and when you start laying on them at a rally-x one caliper may jam easily. It might still happen (there may be rust inside there) but get the old crud out of there. While there, check all the brake lines. They are getting old enough to maybe have issues. Be careful to put some Liquid Wrench or similar on the bleeders for a couple of days before putting a wrench on them as they will be stuck good. Be prepared to replace a cliper or 2 as you may break a bleeder; check the parts stores ahead to see if they have the calipers ready at hand.

Probably brakes are OK then for the ist rally-x but before rallying, I would make a mini-project out of rebuilding/replacing all of the calipers, maybe the MC (I ususally don't), replace/resurface rotors, good pads (after consultation) and putting in stainless braided brake lines all over. (Brake lines can deteriorate insdie and a piece of the inner hose can break off and jam in the line, seizing a caliper. Your car is at the right age to have that happen.)

I would spend a good part of a day, or a trip to a good local garage, inspecting the front end for worn ball joints, bushings, and steering parts, and make another week or so for fixing up any of that. Replace anything that is suspect.

Suck out the rear axle fluid and replace with good synthetic stuff. Check axle seals for leaks. Check driveshaft for worn or even slightly loose universals, and check any center joint bearings and rubber mounts. Replace anything that is a bit loose.

Chekc fule tank straps, mounts for rust but it sounds like you will be good there with the CA car.

I suspect there are more things to mention, but the idea is to get the underside of the car inspected and all things that effect rolling reliability fixed and checked. If you work a regular day job, then this is a 4-8 week set of work for most of us mortals, and will get the car's reliability way up.

Then I would:
2) Lay out a similar list of engine/ electrical stuff to do and execute
3) then a list of the suspension upgrades and execute
4) and then finally work on the cage and safety stuff, which is where you really seriously gut out the car.

In that way, up to stage 4, you will be keeping the car in good regular driving shape and will have driven thousands of miles and to several rally-x or auto-x events to break a few marginal things, and wring out some gremlins. In other words, you have a good, reliable road-worthy car BEFORE you commit to a rally and blow all of those $$. It wil be a lot better to start in the first rally with confidence in your car, and intimate knowledge of the car.

Keep in mind that you have a 21 year old car so little stuff will break and is weak/wron. Just stay patient, and keep after it, and I promise these things will gradually go away, and the car wil be solid as a rock. You are eventually going to touch every part on the car, so you migth as well accept that and dive into that frame of mind.

Sounds like fun!
Mark B.

Heh, Mark, My last project was a rusted '76 MGB. This is a step up (I hope!) age, rust and stuck-bolt-wise.
I figured that was about how things were going to go, Basic trackday/autocross work but with some more dirt in mind, haha. Thank you for writing it out as you have, It helps keep things in perspective.

Brian, I could kill ya, but it was really that kid selling the car. Kept jerking me around, I made the trip out there twice because of him, then he stopped answering my calls. When I finally got though he said "I've decided not to sell" Pretty lame, I figured he was lying. I also had a feeling it wasnt going to be the last I'd seen of that car.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2011 10:09AM by BobOfTheFuture.

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starion887
Keep in mind that you have a 21 year old car so little stuff will break and is weak/wron. Just stay patient, and keep after it, and I promise these things will gradually go away, and the car wil be solid as a rock. You are eventually going to touch every part on the car, so you migth as well accept that and dive into that frame of mind.

This is ever so true... and I would like to add: dailying it for a while will NOT show all the issues and break all the little stuff. It will show and break some of it - but the load is not nearly the same as when you start to seriously drive in anger. And that is regardless of whether you do a "real" rally or a Rally-X...

... and I speak from experience :-).

---

Brgrds
Brian

Mark, that is some very solid advice. that should be the opening chapter to the book "so, you want to build a rally car..."

The volvo -philes might have better advice, but I usually find decent deals, and decent products at clutchnet.com I'd never heard of it till someone on a forum mentioned it, so I figured i'd pass it on. Also they seem to routinely forget to ship clutch alignment tools. but you should find a decent clutch for $100 or so. Pressure plate is seperate.

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starion887

Probably brakes are OK then for the ist rally-x but before rallying, I would make a mini-project out of rebuilding/replacing all of the calipers, maybe the MC (I ususally don't), replace/resurface rotors, good pads (after consultation) and putting in stainless braided brake lines all over. (Brake lines can deteriorate insdie and a piece of the inner hose can break off and jam in the line, seizing a caliper. Your car is at the right age to have that happen.)

Mark B.

Personally, I budget $400 to $1000 to "do" the complete brake job(calipers, wheel cylinders, master, rotors/drums and hoses),
and wheel bearings, and seals, anytime I buy a car. Common vehicles are *much* less expensive to replace all of them at once
than my Capris, and here's the least expensive place to start...

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,make,VOLVO,year,1990,vtype,US

---

SteveL
This is the point in the killing spree when you really should turn the gun on yourself

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aj_johnson
The volvo -philes might have better advice, but I usually find decent deals, and decent products at clutchnet.com I'd never heard of it till someone on a forum mentioned it, so I figured i'd pass it on. Also they seem to routinely forget to ship clutch alignment tools. but you should find a decent clutch for $100 or so. Pressure plate is seperate.

We ran Clutchnet clutches on the 450 hp Pikes Peak Audi in 04-05.
Also what I use in the Merkur. Stock T-5 pressure plate that I got with the bellhousing and the clutchnet sprung six puck I believe is what I'm using.

I have an unused Bentley Volvo 240 manual that needs a new home. If you can use it it's yours.
JT