Sand Blast 2014 penalty scandal?

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brakim
Why didn't you just say "put your name on your profile"
MB

First i don't like rules, so I don't like reminding people when they supposed to be following the rules. But I don't like the anonymity of people complaining about shit ebev less so I remind you and even nice enouigh to give you a link.

Second it was a chance to give you a little lesson in I-r-o-n-y

See? You're all pissed and wound up about what I agree with is a fucked up situation...and lack of info published, and "I didn't know"...

Well HUNDREDS and HUNDREDS have seen the
NOTICE-READ THIS FIRST NOOB, THAT MEANS YOU.

And you didn't..
2 times clear reminder...

And obviously you read it poorly, scanned it, or maybe you can't read so well..


Because the rule is "Real Name, REAL location"


Which you didbn't do..
(and it also shows that despite the glaring obviousness of virtually every single person here having the REAL Name and REAL LOCATION in the signatures or somewhere----and the requirement in the RULES section---you didn't notice..or maybe didn't think you had to....

The IRONY is maybe you see REACHING people, especially when you know what you want but THEY MAY very well be BUSY---DISTRACTED___ON RACE DAY HIGH....whatever...

IS not always easy....

Especially when those receiving the information are used to throw away 1-2 line of tweet, bullshit like "chat", nearly all the communication done in a sloppy vague manner.
And they are not used to listening to anybody.


Do you get the point?

You didn't follow these rules here.
2 reminders and you didn't follow the rules properly.

Did any body else do any service at the notorious alleged "gas only" stop?


Rules suck but sometimes you have to follow them...Co-drivers are supposed to be hyper-alert..Have near ESP. Have TOTAL RECALL, TALK WITH EVERYBODY, never let you do anything wrong....

And I've seen people do better results than yours and have a fuel pump die on a 40 mile transit after the last SS finish control (and we first noticed hie was around at the awards ceremony around 10:45 PM when we were ALL of us beer-ed up to hell)..

I've done a better and had a battery start to die 2 miles from the end of tyhe last SS---and I had 55 miles of "last Transit"...and the INSTANT the co-driver Tom handed the time cars in the car died...and it even a click from the solenoid.,. 2 more blocks and a good National score would have been down the drain...

And then we got 13 or more minutes penalties all for declared time at MTC where you say what time you want..
And co-driver refused to argue the pivotal point...which years alater --not at an event, but at a bar drinjking, where it is calmer--a Natioanl Rules geek LISTENED (finally) and the pi=votable point was seen wrong and the rule changed...

Regler ist regler...

Und befehl ist befehl

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John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

NASA didn't follow their own procedure. It states, in their rule book, that ANY changes made to the supps, must be modified via bulletins. And the changes must be communicated to competitors. Also, they must updated the revision number with the changes. NASA did none of this.

I'll update it with address when I have time on phone now.

The 'bad news' in this is that if you had to pay the appeal fee of $250, that means neither the clerk of the Course (Brad Erdman) nor the steward (Dick Paddock) felt the penalty should be reversed.

If your appeal going forward is 'Anders saw me and said it was OK' - don't hold your breath for the outcome you want. As mentioned already, your appeal NEEDS to be that the organizers didn't meet the rules of distributing schedule changes.

Another thing you have to remember is that since Anders was involved with the event, he really needs to remove himself from serving on, or event selecting the members of, the appeal board.

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

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john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

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brakim
heard your cars a beast

VAC did the engine a few years back, and Samsonas box, so we definitely need to make Tony proud on the next one

Same here man I hear you, even when we win we seam to have some bad news following the win lol we gotta get a nice clean bs free one here soon... wanna make Tony proud for sure... hell of a dude..

Absolutely NOT piling on. If it is exactly as you say then it should get fixed. But I'm curious as to your assertion that rally is in some way different in that rules don't effect the out come of "the race"? I can't think of any motorsport where some silly "technical" infraction hasn't cost someone big time. fender height to low in NASCAR. 6 oz too light in NHRA. Wrong part number on identical clutch in WRC...and that was a 7 time world champion.

Keeping track of all the rules is what keeps co-drivers employed. I hope it turns out for you, but I get a sinking feeling, since they didn't overturn it on the spot and took your $250, that the "change" was on the official notice board. If it was you are SOL.

ya it's just a bummer guys.. I get it rules rulebooks etc, we file the 250 thing as we're supposed to and submitted it. you can read the rules it says they have to post a bulletin for this type of change and they did not. everything we printed from online sups and the route book all say service (look for yourselves) and nasa rulebook requires a bulletin (which was not posted ever) to update to fuel only. this is just a bummer a minor organizational error causing a big headache.. like I said win or lose.. we lose in this case...

Quote
brakim
ya it's just a bummer guys.. I get it rules rulebooks etc, we file the 250 thing as we're supposed to and submitted it. you can read the rules it says they have to post a bulletin for this type of change and they did not. everything we printed from online sups and the route book all say service (look for yourselves) and nasa rulebook requires a bulletin (which was not posted ever) to update to fuel only. this is just a bummer a minor organizational error causing a big headache.. like I said win or lose.. we lose in this case...

Anybody else misunderstand? That is called "mitigating circumstance" when say 20 others made the same mistake--then its kinda clear there was a REAL foul-up..

And you're right, no matter what you do there will be people that have to pick it apart...

Hell I can't even say something good about somebody or congratulate people I've built/service things for without some whining putz complaining "Well they won but they weren't that good because blah blah" Fuckin jerks.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
Ian S
John and Keith, please try not to blow this thread up with some unrelated argument.

---

First Rally: 2001
Driver (7), Co-Driver (44)
Drivers (16)
Clerk (10), Official (7), Volunteer (4)
Cars Built (1), Engines Built (0) Cages Built (0)
Last Updated, January 4, 2015

Quote
john vanlandingham
Blame is for idiots. losers.

Nothing left to discuss really we'll see where the cards lay but it doesn't really matter my only point is that either way everyone loses when a win goes down like this... we love rally... makes it a little bummer but we'll rally on

Well, it sucks you got pulled into a protest, but that's the rules even if it's clear cut on the face of it. Complaing about it just makes you look bad. Just accept the process, even if you were not at fault. That's how these things are done. NASA may have screwed up with their bulletins, but now they are following their procedure to a "T".

And congrats on the win. Nice to see a RWD car on the podium.

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Jason McDaniel

Quote
brakim
Nothing left to discuss really we'll see where the cards lay but it doesn't really matter my only point is that either way everyone loses when a win goes down like this... we love rally... makes it a little bummer but we'll rally on

Wait, I'm so confused. Did you win or lose? I thought you said you won the appeal (and therefore your class in the rally) but you have such a loser attitude. Dude, you won the rally and the appeal, be happy! These things happen in all forms and all levels of motorsports, you better get used to it. You just need thicker skin. Stop complaining and don't be a poor winner!

It got more complicated, We got to awards and we were congratulated etc then a few minutes later we were told 10 minute penalty we proved no buletins were posted saying fuel only and route book said service they said we won, the other compettiors congratulated us then they went inside and went to the next level paying for a review which then forced us to pay $250 for a third party review and file paperwork etc and now we have to wait a week to call it an official win.. after they announced we won to the top teams and they agreed...

Order of events as I know them. My only involvement was as a competitor at the event co-driving for another team in the AWD class:

1. Rally Finishes, I am unclear when the penalty was assessed, but I think it was at this time. Double Plus is in 1st with the penalty in place.

2. Brakim Racing and Double Plus racing file inquiries on both sides of the issue. Penalty is reversed, putting Brakim in 1st.

3. Protest if filed by Double Plus with the required $50 fee, penalty is reinstated. Double Plus is in first.

4. Brakim appealed the ruling with the $250 fee that comes with it. No outcome from that process has been decided at this time.

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Morison

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Ian S
John and Keith, please try not to blow this thread up with some unrelated argument.

In johns defense, his posts were at least somewhat on topic. I'll let it slide. That statements was aimed more at an argument between the two of you..... Which has so far been avoided, and seeing as this is page 2, I'd call that a small marricle.

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I Seppanen, Car #240