This provokes an interesting thought: How many of you writing on this thread is an NRA Member? |
frumby Jason Hynd Ultra Moderator Location: Oak Harbor, WA Join Date: 03/16/2007 Age: Midlife Crisis Posts: 333 Rally Car: XR4TI a slow build! |
So just what are we all saying? I'll sum up my lengthy post: I think there are a number of societal reasons festering in our country that are causing this. I don't think it's possible really to legislate our way out of it. Change has to come in our families, and in our neighborhoods. Will that happen? Probably not, but I'm doing my best to raise good kids.
As long as there are hundreds of millions of guns out there, and criminals and psychos ready to use them, I'm keeping mine. And I'm not 'paranoid'. I'm pretty sure these events prove that this kind of thing is possible anywhere. JVL. We all respect your obvious intelligence, and enjoy your take on arious subjects, but you're also not the only smart guy around. Just because it came out of a history book doesnt make it a fact any more than an Internet link. I'd rather live here with 16000 gun murders than in a communist country anywhere. Give the government too much power (any party) and they abuse it. Every. Time. Now, I'm going to the range to shoot skeet. And plink with the 22. Not going to hurt anyone, it's just for fun! |
heymagic Banned Super Moderator Location: La la land Join Date: 01/25/2006 Age: Fossilized Posts: 3,740 Rally Car: Not a Volvo |
I used to be a NRA member years ago. Rejoined this week only to help with the funding they will need. There are a lot of good people and things supported by NRA, but the leadership might be a bit over the top and like Jens I'm not sure they represent me.
They really need an Eastwood, John Wayne or someone likeable, easy in front of a crowd spokes person. Even Dick Cheney would be a better spokesperson. The hi-cap mags in a semi-auto weapon can be argued. One solution would be for gun clubs to own a registered number and enthusiasts rent them when desired. Like bowling shoes or a hooker, return when finished. I'm a bit confused where exactly John stands on the whole subject. Should a normal, sane, functioning citizen have the right to be armed for whatever their reason or not? And I'm not scolding you, just pointing out that your delivery may be mistaken for intent. Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2012 01:57PM by heymagic. |
john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Elite Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
frumby my good friend, I have never believed and never said that I am intelligent. Far from it. But I am analytical, and I know a lotta junk. Lots.
Analytical can be mistaken for intelligence..but it isn't the same thing... But being analytical does help one see false logic, and things in conflict with documented historical records, and if the logic or stated "facts" are incorrect then the chances of a "right" outcome are decidedly lower... And you're right, the answer is not in laws, it's in a change in people's hearts, and in more empathy in whole swaths of our society, like the murderers this thread is about....you could maybe distill it and say "How could a person grow up so isolated, so ignored or even dispised thayt that person never developed normal empathy for anybody---and be so lacking any thoughts about others that he could decide to kill 20 kids who he never met, never knew? John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
heymagic Banned Super Moderator Location: La la land Join Date: 01/25/2006 Age: Fossilized Posts: 3,740 Rally Car: Not a Volvo |
Excellent post old timer.
|
JohnLane John Lane Mod Moderator Location: Lynden Washington Join Date: 01/14/2006 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 725 Rally Car: The Fire Breathing Monster |
Analytical can be mistaken for intelligence..but it isn't the same thing... But being analytical does help one see false logic, and things in conflict with documented historical records, and if the logic or stated "facts" are incorrect then the chances of a "right" outcome are decidedly lower... [/quote] John re-read your words in this thread.... The amount of shit you've thrown at how many people... Do you think that in doing so you are making friends? That you will end up with more paying customers for it? You continue to throw bullshit at me that your failing memory makes worse every time you bring it up from what... 15 years ago. Stop it. You embarrass yourself and your family. At some point your children and their friends will end up reading it. JohnLane Overkill is consistently more fun |
Vorpal_Rally Stinkfinger Lipschitz Elite Moderator Location: Uranus Join Date: 02/17/2008 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 325 |
That statement makes it out to be the gun's fault. How do you lay blame on a tool? Is it the hammers fault when it strikes a nail? Is it the bats fault when it hits a ball? It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favour of vegetarianism, while the wolf remains of a different opinion. William Ralph Inge TANSTAAFL |
john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Elite Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
John re-read your words in this thread.... The amount of shit you've thrown at how many people... Do you think that in doing so you are making friends? That you will end up with more paying customers for it? You continue to throw bullshit at me that your failing memory makes worse every time you bring it up from what... 15 years ago. Stop it. You embarrass yourself and your family. At some point your children and their friends will end up reading it.[/quote] again Lane your protestations of being offended are bullshit. If you post some ludicrous Inter-net junk mail or crap verbatim from Rush Limbaugh or similar and get a sarcastic reply, its not attacking you, its a normal response to your hot air.... Prentending to be outraged or pretending that you are "being attacked" is in itself insulting to the world, to the concept of rationality.... And you of all people have no moral grounds to lecture anybody about proper behavior. My memory is fine, again it is you who seems to be having trouble remembering things. I remember your stories because they were so shocking, and I remember your behavior IN REAL WORLD. because it was/is so much at odds with your pretend online "persona". Gene can lecture me, Robert can lecture me, but you have no ground to lecture anybody... So stop pretending..... Nice advice:
There IS a difference between vigorously discussing a person's utterances and expressed ideas and attacking the person, and it is unfortunate that you never learned that lesson and see fit to bring up family--which you know nothing about---to make a personal attack because you are so ignorant that you take a refutation of your lazy spitting up of other people's ideas you throw all over as an attack on your personhood. Go and heal thyself. John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Elite Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Uh I dunno. I don't see it that way. I think its a good metaphor because in both cases the THING is just laying there and can do no harm in and of itself until something will will---a person---reaches out and picks it up and uses it more than it is needed. Damage occurs when will is weak...in either case. And, simple observation tells us that , again, like gun violence, this country is nearly unique in having over 60% of the population overweight or obese. And self control is the cure in both cases.. Maybe we fail in self-control (see drug and alky abuse for more thoughts on that) John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
I'm stitting here eating my dinner and heard on the TV news that North Korea has missiles that can reach the west coast of the U.S. North Korean officials were quoted as saying: "Since you Americans can't do it, we have to get comrade Vanlandingham to shut the fuck up." |
john vanlandingham John Vanlandingham Elite Moderator Location: Ford Asylum, Sleezattle, WA Join Date: 12/20/2005 Age: Fossilized Posts: 14,152 Rally Car: Saab 96 V4 |
Them North Koreans ain't my comrades. John Vanlandingham Sleezattle, WA, USA Vive le Prole-le-ralliat www.rallyrace.net/jvab CALL +1 206 431-9696 Remember! Pacific Standard Time is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time. |
JohnLane John Lane Mod Moderator Location: Lynden Washington Join Date: 01/14/2006 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 725 Rally Car: The Fire Breathing Monster |
Amen! JohnLane Overkill is consistently more fun |
heymagic Banned Super Moderator Location: La la land Join Date: 01/25/2006 Age: Fossilized Posts: 3,740 Rally Car: Not a Volvo |
|
JohnLane John Lane Mod Moderator Location: Lynden Washington Join Date: 01/14/2006 Age: Possibly Wise Posts: 725 Rally Car: The Fire Breathing Monster |
He sure managed to step in it.... Of course virtually all the press has it in for the NRA so he was going to get tarred and feathered either way. JohnLane Overkill is consistently more fun |
Gene, since you posted this earlier today (granted I've deleted some phrases, but these are all your words and in the correct context), it has bothered me. I am with Jens, I don't like killing. I have compassion towards all living things, and would my family would have to be physically threatened without any way out before I resorted to lethal force. In life, we have opportunities to grow, gain perspective, and become more compassionate. I don't understand the necessity to lethal force for the possum under your deck? Why not simply call your dog off and go back to bed? Instead you decided to load how many .177 pellets into it. Talk about animal cruelty, it actually makes me nauseas when I think about it. Don't even get me started about the rabbits you've killed because they were in your yard. Can you see no beauty in wildlife? Rabbits, possums, etc... what are they doing in your yard? Likely looking for food for themselves and their families. How are they greeted? By a 60 year old man with a gun, shooting to kill. Why not buy a starter pistol? Bear Bangers? Or hot a pot with a wooden spoon? Please don't pull the rabies card, because that's weak unless it's backed up with a regional health advisory from your area. When I was 18 I spent my summer working in Churchill, Manitoba - The polar bear capitol of North America (if not the world). The polar bears made their way from the arctic, sub arctic, to the tundra, and eventually to Churchill because of the waft from the garbage dump. In that town, polar bears walked down the streets. Occasionally they would break into a house, ramsack a kitchen looking for food and simply leave. If you felt threatend by a polar bear, you would call "Polar Bear Alert" who would arrive and force the bears back into Hudson Bay. How would they force the bears? They would fire flares close to them, and get them to move. I saw many polar bears at close range, occasioanlly they would stand up on their hind legs to get a closer look. Yes it could be frightening. I had nothing to defend myself with and there wasn't a threat. You learn to co-exist, accept, and behave in such a way that lethal force on sight is the furthest from your mind. The attitude that you have weapons for animal defense, shooting a possum and rabbits... it's no wonder that there's such a facination with firearms and death plaguing the US. Change starts with attitude. The war on drugs is futile... how about allocate all the resources from the war on drugs to a war on firearms! Let people do drugs and take away the means to kill. |