Let's get political. Gun Debate!

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Jens

I stopped my NRA membership in the mid or late 90's, because they did not represent me. I am thinking of rejoining (temporarily possibly) to stop this rabid media anti-gun agenda, but I will have to hold my nose to do it.

This provokes an interesting thought:

How many of you writing on this thread is an NRA Member?

So just what are we all saying? I'll sum up my lengthy post: I think there are a number of societal reasons festering in our country that are causing this. I don't think it's possible really to legislate our way out of it. Change has to come in our families, and in our neighborhoods. Will that happen? Probably not, but I'm doing my best to raise good kids.
As long as there are hundreds of millions of guns out there, and criminals and psychos ready to use them, I'm keeping mine. And I'm not 'paranoid'. I'm pretty sure these events prove that this kind of thing is possible anywhere.

JVL. We all respect your obvious intelligence, and enjoy your take on arious subjects, but you're also not the only smart guy around. Just because it came out of a history book doesnt make it a fact any more than an Internet link. I'd rather live here with 16000 gun murders than in a communist country anywhere. Give the government too much power (any party) and they abuse it. Every. Time.

Now, I'm going to the range to shoot skeet. And plink with the 22. Not going to hurt anyone, it's just for fun!

I used to be a NRA member years ago. Rejoined this week only to help with the funding they will need. There are a lot of good people and things supported by NRA, but the leadership might be a bit over the top and like Jens I'm not sure they represent me.

They really need an Eastwood, John Wayne or someone likeable, easy in front of a crowd spokes person. Even Dick Cheney would be a better spokesperson.

The hi-cap mags in a semi-auto weapon can be argued. One solution would be for gun clubs to own a registered number and enthusiasts rent them when desired. Like bowling shoes or a hooker, return when finished.


I'm a bit confused where exactly John stands on the whole subject. Should a normal, sane, functioning citizen have the right to be armed for whatever their reason or not? And I'm not scolding you, just pointing out that your delivery may be mistaken for intent.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2012 01:57PM by heymagic.

frumby my good friend, I have never believed and never said that I am intelligent. Far from it. But I am analytical, and I know a lotta junk. Lots.
Analytical can be mistaken for intelligence..but it isn't the same thing...
But being analytical does help one see false logic, and things in conflict with documented historical records, and if the logic or stated "facts" are incorrect then the chances of a "right" outcome are decidedly lower...

And you're right, the answer is not in laws, it's in a change in people's hearts, and in more empathy in whole swaths of our society, like the murderers this thread is about....you could maybe distill it and say "How could a person grow up so isolated, so ignored or even dispised thayt that person never developed normal empathy for anybody---and be so lacking any thoughts about others that he could decide to kill 20 kids who he never met, never knew?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Excellent post old timer.

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john vanlandingham
frumby my good friend, I have never believed and never said that I am intelligent. Far from it. But I am analytical, and I know a lotta junk. Lots.
Analytical can be mistaken for intelligence..but it isn't the same thing...
But being analytical does help one see false logic, and things in conflict with documented historical records, and if the logic or stated "facts" are incorrect then the chances of a "right" outcome are decidedly lower...

And you're right, the answer is not in laws, it's in a change in people's hearts, and in more empathy in whole swaths of our society, like the murderers this thread is about....you could maybe distill it and say "How could a person grow up so isolated, so ignored or even dispised thayt that person never developed normal empathy for anybody---and be so lacking any thoughts about others that he could decide to kill 20 kids who he never met, never knew?

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john vanlandingham
frumby my good friend, I have never believed and never said that I am intelligent. Far from it. But I am analytical, and I know a lotta junk. Lots.

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john vanlandingham
You are not smarter than me. And you do not know more than me except maybe in whatever your specific job is, but not much else very probably..
Why would you be or how could you?
You aren't.

Don't sneer shit at me..
Again, you talk a lot of smack talk. guys your age and (in)experience generally do... but smart or not most people see a lot more even if they have sat in one place --over time. I have a lot of time on you, even more experience and way better memory than anybody I know..if you were smart, you'd listen more, maybe ask questions.

Analytical can be mistaken for intelligence..but it isn't the same thing...
But being analytical does help one see false logic, and things in conflict with documented historical records, and if the logic or stated "facts" are incorrect then the chances of a "right" outcome are decidedly lower...
[/quote]

John re-read your words in this thread.... The amount of shit you've thrown at how many people... Do you think that in doing so you are making friends? That you will end up with more paying customers for it? You continue to throw bullshit at me that your failing memory makes worse every time you bring it up from what... 15 years ago. Stop it. You embarrass yourself and your family. At some point your children and their friends will end up reading it.

---

JohnLane

Overkill is consistently more fun

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john vanlandingham
"The solution for gun violence in America is more guns will be true when the solution for obesity in America is more food." _{some genius.}

That statement makes it out to be the gun's fault. How do you lay blame on a tool? Is it the hammers fault when it strikes a nail? Is it the bats fault when it hits a ball?

---

It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favour of vegetarianism, while the wolf remains of a different opinion.
William Ralph Inge

TANSTAAFL

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JohnLane

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john vanlandingham
frumby my good friend, I have never believed and never said that I am intelligent. Far from it. But I am analytical, and I know a lotta junk. Lots.

Quote
john vanlandingham
You are not smarter than me. And you do not know more than me except maybe in whatever your specific job is, but not much else very probably..
Why would you be or how could you?
You aren't.

Don't sneer shit at me..
Again, you talk a lot of smack talk. guys your age and (in)experience generally do... but smart or not most people see a lot more even if they have sat in one place --over time. I have a lot of time on you, even more experience and way better memory than anybody I know..if you were smart, you'd listen more, maybe ask questions.

Analytical can be mistaken for intelligence..but it isn't the same thing...
But being analytical does help one see false logic, and things in conflict with documented historical records, and if the logic or stated "facts" are incorrect then the chances of a "right" outcome are decidedly lower...

John re-read your words in this thread.... The amount of shit you've thrown at how many people... Do you think that in doing so you are making friends? That you will end up with more paying customers for it? You continue to throw bullshit at me that your failing memory makes worse every time you bring it up from what... 15 years ago. Stop it. You embarrass yourself and your family. At some point your children and their friends will end up reading it.[/quote]

again Lane your protestations of being offended are bullshit.
If you post some ludicrous Inter-net junk mail or crap verbatim from Rush Limbaugh or similar and get a sarcastic reply, its not attacking you, its a normal response to your hot air....

Prentending to be outraged or pretending that you are "being attacked" is in itself insulting to the world, to the concept of rationality....

And you of all people have no moral grounds to lecture anybody about proper behavior.

My memory is fine, again it is you who seems to be having trouble remembering things. I remember your stories because they were so shocking, and I remember your behavior IN REAL WORLD. because it was/is so much at odds with your pretend online "persona".

Gene can lecture me, Robert can lecture me, but you have no ground to lecture anybody...

So stop pretending.....

Nice advice:

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Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother's eye. _{some old guy long time ago}

There IS a difference between vigorously discussing a person's utterances and expressed ideas and attacking the person, and it is unfortunate that you never learned that lesson and see fit to bring up family--which you know nothing about---to make a personal attack because you are so ignorant that you take a refutation of your lazy spitting up of other people's ideas you throw all over as an attack on your personhood.

Go and heal thyself.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

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Vorpal_Rally

Quote
john vanlandingham
"The solution for gun violence in America is more guns will be true when the solution for obesity in America is more food." _{some genius.}

That statement makes it out to be the gun's fault. How do you lay blame on a tool? Is it the hammers fault when it strikes a nail? Is it the bats fault when it hits a ball?

Uh I dunno.

I don't see it that way. I think its a good metaphor because in both cases the THING is just laying there and can do no harm in and of itself until something will will---a person---reaches out and picks it up and uses it more than it is needed.
Damage occurs when will is weak...in either case.

And, simple observation tells us that , again, like gun violence, this country is nearly unique in having over 60% of the population overweight or obese.

And self control is the cure in both cases..
Maybe we fail in self-control (see drug and alky abuse for more thoughts on that)

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
john vanlandingham
........blah, blah, blah... blahhhhh....blaaaaa.....blah blah.

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

I'm stitting here eating my dinner and heard on the TV news that North Korea has missiles that can reach the west coast of the U.S. North Korean officials were quoted as saying: "Since you Americans can't do it, we have to get comrade Vanlandingham to shut the fuck up."

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Jens

Quote
john vanlandingham
........blah, blah, blah... blahhhhh....blaaaaa.....blah blah.

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

I'm stitting here eating my dinner and heard on the TV news that North Korea has missiles that can reach the west coast of the U.S. North Korean officials were quoted as saying: "Since you Americans can't do it, we have to get comrade Vanlandingham to shut the fuck up."

Them North Koreans ain't my comrades.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
Jens
I'm stitting here eating my dinner and heard on the TV news that North Korea has missiles that can reach the west coast of the U.S. North Korean officials were quoted as saying: "Since you Americans can't do it, we have to get comrade Vanlandingham to shut the fuck up."

Amen!

---

JohnLane

Overkill is consistently more fun

I can't decide who LaPierre is for, gun owners or gun censors.

Quote
heymagic
I can't decide who LaPierre is for, gun owners or gun censors.

He sure managed to step in it.... Of course virtually all the press has it in for the NRA so he was going to get tarred and feathered either way.

---

JohnLane

Overkill is consistently more fun

Quote
heymagic

I did shoot a 'possum under the deck that my basset cornered in the middle of the night. Used the pellet gun. Won't do that again.

Have had a bit of a wabbit problem this year and a few of those were dispatched with the pellet gun also.

For larger animal defense the AR and a full clip should work.

Nice to have options isn't it?

Gene, since you posted this earlier today (granted I've deleted some phrases, but these are all your words and in the correct context), it has bothered me.

I am with Jens, I don't like killing. I have compassion towards all living things, and would my family would have to be physically threatened without any way out before I resorted to lethal force.

In life, we have opportunities to grow, gain perspective, and become more compassionate.

I don't understand the necessity to lethal force for the possum under your deck? Why not simply call your dog off and go back to bed? Instead you decided to load how many .177 pellets into it. Talk about animal cruelty, it actually makes me nauseas when I think about it.

Don't even get me started about the rabbits you've killed because they were in your yard. Can you see no beauty in wildlife?

Rabbits, possums, etc... what are they doing in your yard? Likely looking for food for themselves and their families. How are they greeted? By a 60 year old man with a gun, shooting to kill.

Why not buy a starter pistol?

Bear Bangers?

Or hot a pot with a wooden spoon?

Please don't pull the rabies card, because that's weak unless it's backed up with a regional health advisory from your area.

When I was 18 I spent my summer working in Churchill, Manitoba - The polar bear capitol of North America (if not the world). The polar bears made their way from the arctic, sub arctic, to the tundra, and eventually to Churchill because of the waft from the garbage dump.

In that town, polar bears walked down the streets. Occasionally they would break into a house, ramsack a kitchen looking for food and simply leave. If you felt threatend by a polar bear, you would call "Polar Bear Alert" who would arrive and force the bears back into Hudson Bay.

How would they force the bears?

They would fire flares close to them, and get them to move.

I saw many polar bears at close range, occasioanlly they would stand up on their hind legs to get a closer look. Yes it could be frightening. I had nothing to defend myself with and there wasn't a threat.

You learn to co-exist, accept, and behave in such a way that lethal force on sight is the furthest from your mind.

The attitude that you have weapons for animal defense, shooting a possum and rabbits... it's no wonder that there's such a facination with firearms and death plaguing the US.

Change starts with attitude.

The war on drugs is futile... how about allocate all the resources from the war on drugs to a war on firearms!

Let people do drugs and take away the means to kill.