Let's get political. Gun Debate!

That's what I heard also Jay. CWP and clear headed, responsible person likely saved a bunch of grief.

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Dazed_Driver
http://www.leg.state.or.us/richardson/newsletter/newsletters_2012/newsletter_121712.htm

Interesting article, one part stuck out in particular...

" By sad coincidence a mad-man in China also entered an elementary school last Friday and used a knife to stab 22 children.

In other words, instead of responding to the latest mass murder with calls for more gun-control, the real issue should be ensuring the protection of our children and educators from armed psychopaths. "

Where there's a will, there's a way... Fix the problem, don't take away tools.

Timmy, if you were not wrapped in a cocoon, and not the single most lazy person ever and had read about the loon you may have noticed that in the Chinese attack a bunch of kids were WOUNDED and 7 hospitalised..

In the latest playing out of a loser punk fantasy 27 people were KILLED..
See?
wounded--killed..
Killed means they don't get up cause they're what's called DEAD..
For most of us there's a lot more bother being DEAD than wounded.
It takes a lot longer to get better from being dead, too.

Killing with a knife takes knowledge and skill and either an unaware victim or somebody who is slower running than you..

Using a gun means even a guy filled with lassitude and with a non-higher-functioning brain can RAPIDLY and EASILY Kill from a great distance.

Try and think... I know it's hard for you but the sooner you start the sooner you'll get accustomed to the sensation.. Eventually you might even find it pleasant..

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

Quote
heymagic
That's what I heard also Jay. CWP and clear headed, responsible person likely saved a bunch of grief.

Yep...All this idiot talk about arming teachers and principles and the ONE SHOT story in fawkin Texas..

I remind people to read any report when trained Police stand 5 feet away and fire 41 rounds at Amadou Diallo, and hit him "only" 19 times :

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Amadou Bailo Diallo (September 2, 1975 – February 4, 1999) was a 23-year-old immigrant from Guinea who was shot and killed in New York City on February 4, 1999 by four New York City Police Department plain-clothed officers: Sean Carroll, Richard Murphy, Edward McMellon and Kenneth Boss, who fired a combined total of 41 shots, 19 of which struck Diallo, outside 1157 Wheeler Avenue.......

......Observing that Diallo matched the description of a since-captured well-armed serial rapist involved in the rape or attempted rape of 51 victims, they approached him.[3][4] The officers were in plain clothes.

The officers claimed they loudly identified themselves as NYPD officers and that Diallo ran up the outside steps toward his apartment house doorway at their approach, ignoring their orders to stop and "show his hands". The porch lightbulb was out and Diallo was backlit by the inside vestibule light, showing only a silhouette. Diallo then reached into his jacket and withdrew his wallet. Seeing the suspect holding a small square object, Carroll yelled "Gun!" to alert his colleagues. Believing Diallo had aimed a gun at them at close range, the officers opened fire on Diallo. During the shooting, lead officer McMellon tripped backward off the front stairs, causing the other officers to believe he had been shot. The four officers fired 41 shots, more than half of which went astray as Diallo was hit 19 times.[1]

The post-shooting investigation found no weapons on Diallo's body; the item he had pulled out of his jacket was not a gun, but a rectangular black wallet.

Bear in mind that the wallet the poor dumb bastard was pulling out must have jammed because he wasn't returning fire, and these veteran crack unit cops missed entirely more than half the shots..

How many people could live with knowing they killed one or two or more innocents because they missed--because they were never under fire in their lives and were spraying fire wildly back?

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

A strong case to restrict cops to singleshot weapons. Most of the time his sort of.thing comes up, citizens outperform cops by a huge margin. No surprise. Cops kill people in botched raids, botched traffic stops, botched as friggin nauseum and there is almost no consequence whereas for citizens, there are. That too needs to change but that's another thread.

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Jay Woodward
Snohomish, WA
'90 Mazdog Frankenprotege
Chronologically, 46...

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john vanlandingham
Yeah yeah, whatever Lane, that happens every other month. How could we overlook that?
The illogic that you sort use, typical false premise "We can't stop it all, that means we can't even try to do anything" is tired. And lame. Guess Rush didn't tell you what to think about good enough.

I've obviously won the argument... You are attacking me.

Typical of you John..... You only hurt yourself with your online behavior. Your what.... 42 years out of hi-school? Act your age.

John how would you get the evil wicked naughty gunzzzzz away from the naer-do-wells? AKA Criminals...

Making it more difficult to obtain firearms for those inclined to follow the law has failed badly everywhere in the USA that has been tried.

---

JohnLane

Overkill is consistently more fun

Quote
JohnLane

Quote
john vanlandingham
Yeah yeah, whatever Lane, that happens every other month. How could we overlook that?
The illogic that you sort use, typical false premise "We can't stop it all, that means we can't even try to do anything" is tired. And lame. Guess Rush didn't tell you what to think about good enough.

I've obviously won the argument... You are attacking me.

Typical of you John..... You only hurt yourself with your online behavior. Your what.... 42 years out of hi-school? Act your age.

John how would you get the evil wicked naughty gunzzzzz away from the naer-do-wells? AKA Criminals...

Making it more difficult to obtain firearms for those inclined to follow the law has failed badly everywhere in the USA that has been tried.

Liar, that is not an attack, it's a simple mildly sarcastic answer to your normal unselfconciously ridiculous comments:

Quote

"You recall why the crazies got turned loose.... The Courts did that.... "

You don't recall that. You were TOLD that by somebody else.

I recall the stuff from referenced from late 60s onward because i was old enough AND , when back in USA LIVING THERE...

You asked if i recall --as if you do...you don't, It is absurd to ask that way.
Absurd questions USULLY generate sarcastic and/or ironic answers so:

Can you quit with your "you're attacking me " bullshit.

And thereby try and pretend that the shit you spout is something other that utterly groundless repeated crap?
Shut the fuck up with your sniveling Lane, and READ THE FAWKING Article which answers your and comment about that..
You are the biggest whiner I have ever encountered..
READ WHAT I POSTED about mental health care---and then go get some before you flip out.

For once I'd really like to see a human answer from you when you rant about the big bad gubbyment---especically the evil Democrats---and I take the minute to very thoroughly post offical documents which clearly disproves whatever of the 3 constant rants you have--such as the above--I'd relly be amazed to see you ever say "Oh. Shit. I had no idea. Uh hmmmm, that puts it in a different light.
But EVERY instance that your raving is countered, you immediately begin to whine and DERAIL discussion with this "You're attacking me"..

John I don't need to attack you because your "reasoning" is always a house of card 3rd hand non-sense. It takes seconds to disprove, it doesn't make me mad, it's hardly an effort so simple and consistently wrong whatever you say..

TRY AND READ.. You mention high school which I guess you managed to finished..Try reading and reasoning at 9th grade level for once..It's a simple short piece and it is directly related to crazies being on the streets--thus in direct answer to your question..

You cannot constantly blow up and act offended, it's a phony ploy, just like your facade of propriety--and poverty...and we all know it John.

And John, I didn't "win the argument" There is no argument. There is a loose discussion....about somebody who killed a whole lot of children because of the glorification and mythologizing around power and powerlessness and the simplest cure for those who feel powerless.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

You know what? Not everyone who gets shots dies.

You know what? Not everyone who gets stabbed lives.


Both can kill you in a variety of ways. Sometimes you die. Sometimes you don't. Even being shot in the head is NOT a guaranteed death.

Also - are you saying you would love for your daughters to be stabbed and live? Personally, if I had children (and before you say anything, I don't fucking want kids. I DO NOT), I wouldn't want them to get attacked, stabbed, or shot. One isn't better than the other.

The point of that article was with a KNIFE, they attacked a multitude of people...

But you can't see that point, because you're blinded by hatred towards me, guns, apparently, and whatever else you've stuck up your ass recently.

I honestly feel sorry for your daughters. I hope jr high and high school wont be rough for them. Living with you will give them a very skewed, horrible perspective of the world. Thank god they're not home schooled. That's their only saving grace.

---

Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

Quote
Dazed_Driver
You know what? Not everyone who gets shots dies.

You know what? Not everyone who gets stabbed lives.


Both can kill you in a variety of ways. Sometimes you die. Sometimes you don't. Even being shot in the head is NOT a guaranteed death.

Also - are you saying you would love for your daughters to be stabbed and live? Personally, if I had children (and before you say anything, I don't fucking want kids. I DO NOT), I wouldn't want them to get attacked, stabbed, or shot. One isn't better than the other.

The point of that article was with a KNIFE, they attacked a multitude of people...

But you can't see that point, because you're blinded by hatred towards me, guns, apparently, and whatever else you've stuck up your ass recently.

I honestly feel sorry for your daughters. I hope jr high and high school wont be rough for them. Living with you will give them a very skewed, horrible perspective of the world. Thank god they're not home schooled. That's their only saving grace.

Timmy you stupid piece of shit, you shut your fucking stupid mouth about about anything about my girls or my family.

They are both more well adjusted and more intelligent and more mature than you, you parasitic carbuncle on humanity's ass.

ANY comment from you about my family in any way at all is off limits, out of bounds, and if you weren't a worthless sack of shit punk, you'd know that...

Got it asshole?

And you, again are flat to stupid to see there is no comparison to death and maybe getting a even nasty cut.
Why don't you try it. First slit your throat. Then shoot yourself in the head..
Tell us which is worse.


(well we can always hope he falls for it)

I know which would be better for the world.

---

John Vanlandingham
Sleezattle, WA, USA

Vive le Prole-le-ralliat

www.rallyrace.net/jvab
CALL +1 206 431-9696
Remember! Pacific Standard Time
is 3 hours behind Eastern Standard Time.

See the other thread about my response to you telling me I can't talk about your family. I should have guessed you'd have double standards.

---

Welcome to the cult of JVL drink the koolaid or be banned.

I feel that only single shot weapons should be in civilian hands.

Harsh legislation, penalties, etc., for non compliance of weapon surrender should help get anything to the contrary off the streets in a reasonable amount of time. The "bad people, mentally unstable, etc" would no longer have access to multi round weapons, so there is no reason left for "good" civilians to have them either.

You can take your single shot weapon to the firing range and to the woods for hunting. If you can't perform a 1 shot clean kill of an animal at distance, you shouldn't be hunting in the first place.

I'm not a "pro gun" person, eventhough I have had formal training with a 7.62mm NATO weapon. Yes, it seems like a lifetime ago I could field strip one in pitch black night time conditions.

Just because you have experience with guns doesn't mean you can't give them up.

I agree with JVL that the 2nd ammendment right to... was intended for the weapons of it's time.

Yup...

Another wall of text pounded out by JVL. John you get credit for being consistent.

I'm well aware of funding cutbacks in mental health back in the day.... What a shock that for you the only problem is that some dastardly Republican cut your precious Government funding! As always there is more to the story John. I don't care enough of you to put any effort into putting up links.

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JohnLane

Overkill is consistently more fun

Quote
RWD4ME
I feel that only single shot weapons should be in civilian hands.

Harsh legislation, penalties, etc., for non compliance of weapon surrender should help get anything to the contrary off the streets in a reasonable amount of time. The "bad people, mentally unstable, etc" would no longer have access to multi round weapons, so there is no reason left for "good" civilians to have them either.

When you can absolutely guarantee that all the criminals will not have guns and that the police are not ever corrupt.... I may agree to give up my weapons. Being as how that will never happen. I'll be keeping mine. You are Canadianne... You'll do as you see fit.

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JohnLane

Overkill is consistently more fun

Okay,

This is the same discussion about over sized SUV's...

I need more rounds of ammo (more vehicle weight) so I win the fire fight (I crush the other guy).

I thought the purpose was to progress as a society, no? Sure in 1560 there was a ton of folks running around with knives killing people, please don't equate human society today with the middle ages... if you do we're not learning anything.

Sure we'll still have "bad people" but the "bad" and "mental health" issues that many of these shooting stem from are treatable, or wouldn't even manifest if caught early. More effort in early recognition of symtoms, treatment, better community programs. Change the tide from producing "criminals" so we can lock them up, to producing stable people so we don't have too.

This is me "stepping up" John, you're gonna turn Timmy into a gun wielding "lunatic" soon. So make sure your arguments are directed at his argument, not him. Explain what you think is the answer and try to suggest alternatives. I know it's hard, but that is less likely to marginalize Tim to the point he goes "wacko". Civility is the message we're trying to convey.

Tim, I sure as hell would rather be staring at somebody "going crazy" wielding a single shot weapon or a knife then a AR with 100 rounds. Please, seriously think about that situation. There is no way the knife is as deadly...

Then again, we (collective North America, "western society" are still doing a terrible job at managing "criminals" and putting folks in jails for weed... so maybe we're not progressing as much as I wish we were. Where's my tank?

Our society allows many things due to personal choice rather than common sense. Pit bulls is another one. That's the way it is. Single shot weapons for hunting isn't the answer, its not even a good answer. Single shot kills of a 1000lb animal is a sign of ...well quite frankly ignorance. And I'll bet statements such as that are chosen more for trolling efforts that honest opinions. Choosing not to hunt, or not to be able to dispatch an angry bear if you live in a remote area because you have to reload isn't the problem or the cure. Treating mental illness (recognizing and admitting for starters) is a needed start. Bringing back good parenting, tough to do when so many people having kids never bothered to grow up them selves. Mental illness is a fact, not everyone is wired the same.

Lanzas mother recognized and feared his disability by several reports. Somehow decided firearms were a good answer. Spent too much time in a neighborhood bar. Hard to believe it all went wrong.... How damaged was that guy (well kid actually) to do that amount of violence against some of the purest souls in the world. Young children, physically small children, incomprehensible. How does this go so wrong? Maybe we need to look at the trainig and ability of the so called doctors and professionals in the mental health industry.

As a parent, gun owner , concious human this is a heart breaking incidence . I can't fathom what the parents are going thru.

Well said Gene...

I completely agree that there are cases where someone might need more then one round... and hunting big game, or "bear attack" might be one (but I'll also argue we should not be hunting bear, they are too high up the food chain to be a efficent food source for us). However, my point is that as a society we are still producing multi-round weapons for general civilain use, and that's F-upped. Johnny hunter doesn't need 50 rounds to drop the bear, and if he does, he doesn't have the training to be "there" in the first place. Maybe he needs more then one, but the proliferation of these weapons suggest that our society is still pretty screwed up. We need to fix that. I don't have an answer for it, I just think we need to look at it.

And Pitbulls hark to an age when we had dog fights... That's F-upped too... we need to fix that, and the folks that think Pitbulls are "cute" really need to understand what they are up against. Thankfully bullfighting is on it's way out...

It absolutly sucks... it's a horrific event, and all we can do now is try to fix what went wrong. However, it will probably happen again, because before we fix it there will be another kid messed up enough to do something this horrible. I hope we act fast...